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chicagoeddie · Pair Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

8-28-05 I played 3, 10 seat $5+$1 s&gs on an easy site. My first game I finished 2nd. I was down about 6,000 to 2,000. I flopped high and low pair. He raised me as he did a few times before. I told my son I know I'm ahead and went all in. And He caught a straight or flush on the river. It took a little over an hour. The next two games I came about 7th and 6th. I wasn't winning any hands at all. But I didn't play many and only saw a few flops and folded. Both times I was down to less the 300. Once I went all in pre flop with pocket queens and lost to a straight on the river card. And the other I went all in with high and low pair after the flop. And I lost to a flush on the river card. Those straights and flushes might be reversed. So I cashed 15 in the first and 0 in the next two. So I lost $3 total. I think I played almost 40 or 45 minutes in the losers. I don't have records of those 3 s&gs and they will not be included in my simple record forms.

.....These s&gs are on my simple record sheets. These are all 10 players $5+.50 s&gs except the last one was 20 players.
.....I finished 5th out of 10. I lasted 57 minutes. I was down to about 1300 out of 15,000 in the s&g. The big blind was 150. I went all in pre flop with KK. I was ahead but lost.
.....I finished 6th out of 10. I lasted 57 minutes again and the big blind was $150. I was down to about 1200 or 1300. I went all in with top pair of QQ after the flop. I was ahead but lost.
.....About 10 hours later I finished 8th out of 10. I only last 25 minutes. I came 8th out of 10. I was ahead 10,10 pre flop, went all in and lost.
.....I finished 8th again. Lasted 9 minutes. I called all in pre flop with pocket JJ. I was ahead and lost.
.....5 hours later I finished 1st. It took 1 hour & 20 minutes. I had about 2500 left and was in 4th. Then the one who took the lead knocked out 2nd & 3rd places. I was lucky. I think he went all in and I had a pocket pair. He had AX. Two hands later I called his all in after the flop with only top pair. Again he had AX and I won first. It was luck because I wasn't better then the others.
.....Next day I lost in 31 minutes, then in 2 minutes and then in 2 minutes again. I played bad in the first of these. I went all in or called all in and I was behind and finished 6th.
.....Next I finished 10th. I had pocket fives and flop was 8,8,5. I bet 100, was raised to 1,000 and I made it all in. Winner had 8,5 so he had a higher full house.
.....Finished 10th again. Called all in with top and bottom pair after the flop. I was ahead but lost.
.....Four hours later I finished 8th in 25 minutes. I called some big bets in a couple of hands and lost. I played bad.
.....Then I finished 5th out of 20. I lasted 1 hour & 37 minutes. I was the leader for about 10 hands with about 6,000 chips. Then I just sort of dropped to 5th, or 6th. Payouts were 40, 30, 20, 10. I was down to about 3000 in chips. I think the big blind was 600. I don't remember if I called all in or bet it. I had A,8 and the winner had A,9 and there was no help for either of us. But if I won I would have moved up to close to 3rd in chip count.

.....I played in a few play money games in between some of those losses. But after playing for real money the play money doesn't seem like it will help my real money play. I must improve. I am down $30 from my $200 starting bankroll. I have been reading a lot of threads and looking on some other sites trying to learn. And by Mon I will order a few books.

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

Play money is not the same. I strongly recommend Harrington on Hold 'Em, both volumes. Also, remember that a raise in a real money game is far more likely to mean the person has a good hand than in a play money game. Tighten up, and win playing very tightly, then as you get better, you can try more creative plays.

iuz the old · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:51 am Post subject:

Hi Eddie
I live in Chicago too and just started playing last november. The playmoney games are good to familiarise yourself with the graphics and gameplay of the site but have questionable value when it comes to improving your game.
If you want to improve your NL holdem tournament game I recommend Harrington on Holdem vols. I and II and for limit play I recommend Mathew Hilgers "Internet Texas Holdem-winning strategies from an internet pro".
The main thing about money play when you first start is that you can kiss your first $200 bucks goodbye - look on it as your tuition expenses! I would suggest that perhaps you should avoid the Sit and Gos for a while as they can be very swingy in terms of bankroll and if you play too long or start to get frustrated you can get into a bad rut.
I started playing 25c/50c and 50c/$1 games at Limit holdem and I found it the best way to learn and earn. The stakes are just large enough to encourage reasonably sensible play and you can improve your play while earning some cash if you follow the basics. Also you can earn money from the sign on bonuses most sites offer so you can make money as you play. The best sites IMO are Full Tilt , Ultimate bet and Partypoker for earning sign on bonuses.When you earn your bonus take out your money and stick it in another site (I recommend you set up a neteller account)
By starting with limit ring games I feel you get a solid foundation of basics before jumping into the wild west of NL play.
When you play NL Sit and go s I advice against Partypoker simply because they charge a 20% fee to play their tourneys as opposed to most other sites who only charge 10% (eg $5+50c on Full Tilt compared to $5+$1 on Partypoker)
Good luck with your endeavours!

chicagoeddie · Pair Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

Hi Iuz. Hopefully I will be ordering at least the 3 books you mentioned by early next week. I tried some .25-.50 games today. I played tight and struggled, but manage to hold my own. I played for 14 min, 32 min, 2 hr 14 min and 56 min. I won 1.35, 2.09, 13.00 and 1.30. I'm keeping the results on a form with my s&gs. With everything combined I am down 23.26.

I am also considering purchasing some poker software. I have read the two by Wilson are pretty good. I am all ears if anyone has any computer program suggestions.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

Lepoppet · Straight Flush Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 359

GripHoldOn · Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:16 am Post subject:

Just because you went all-in and you were behind doesn't mean that you necessarily played bad. By the same token, just because you went all-in as a favorite doesn't mean that you played good. It sounds like you're shortstacked in every SNG you play, but when you get all of the money in the middle you're almost always a favorite. The problem is, by the time you find a hand with which to go all-in you are very shortstacked and even if you DO double up, you won't even be near the chip lead.

Let's say you survive until the final 4 but you are short stacked. First you find QcQh and you go all-in. You're up against As5s, and your queens hold up. A little bit later you find TT. You're up against KT, but you win this also. Finally, you get dealt AA. You go all-in yet again, and this time you're up against 86o. He catches trips on the river and cracks you aces. Bad beat right? You were all-in each time and you were a pretty big favorite. Well, you're only 36% to win all three of those all-ins. Yes you're a favorite to win any individual one, but since you need to win all three of those to stay alive, you're actually an underdog. It's much harder to win multiple all-ins even if you are a favorite in each of them than it is to won one all-in; Even if you're a dog.

weirdobob · High Card Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 10

I also would recommend Harrington's book on Hold 'em.

I bought volumes 1 & 2 and am looking forward to volume 3 from him.

I know it has helped my game. I bought his books for a few reasons. One, I wanted to improve my game. Two, I like the way he plays. And three, even though I've been successful at PL Hold 'em; I knew if I wanted to play on certain sites that didn't offer PL that I would have to improve my NL game and Harrington's book is very in depth at the NL game.

chicagoeddie · Pair Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

Below is a link to a new message I posted asking for help in chosing a poker program. I also listed 6 books I ordered plus 3 I have. Thanks for the help and suggestions.

I just finished a 3 hour, 2 minute session of .25-.50. I had my biggest loss. So far I played .25-50 for 14 minutes +1.35, 32 minutes +2.09, 2 hours-14 minutes +13.00, 56 minutes +1.30, 20 minutes +.50, 1 hour +4.20, and 3 hours -2 minutes -21.45. Combinning my s&gs and games I am down 20:51. I was also playing a freeroll during part of the last session that started at 2:15 am local time.

http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/viewtopic.php?t=1607

jbrennen · Straight Flush Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 422

Read Harrington on Hold'em, both volumes. I think you already ordered them, if I read right in another thread.

Once you have the books in your hands, don't play any SnGs until you've read them both. Consider it an investment.

I read them both over the last two weeks. Last night, I stepped up to a $20+$2 SnG for the first time, after doing mostly $5+.50 games -- and doing well enough to think I could move up. The techniques that Harrington teaches are winners. I was the last man standing, for a $90 prize. A $68 profit for a little over an hour. It paid for both of the HoH books, and then some. Smile

chicagoeddie · Pair Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

iuz the old · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject:

I started with the limit games as you can have a bad session and not necessarily lose your bankroll. I would lay off the cash No Limit games for that same reason. No limit S&Gs are good as you just pay your entry fee and away you go but some players treat the cash no limit games the same way and play their bankroll all the way as if they were trying to win the game. There is a big difference btwn tournament and ring game strategy - if you have a limited bankroll and are just starting out stay away from no limit cash games as it is just too expensive to learn that way.
I recommended starting at low limit games to learn the basics - why calling EP raises with KJ is wrong , how to get a free card , why calling on the river is usually correct etc. Of course many tactics that work in limit poker are not correct in NL (eg bluffing occasionally in NL is necessary while it is hardly ever right in low limit) but the majority of them transfer well.
Another excellent reason to start with low limit hold em is to take full advantage of the deposit bonuses available at most sites. Nothing earns more bonus points than constant ring games (while S&Gs earn bonus points you will have to play a ton of them!).When you have a small and finite starting bankroll you make money twice - when you play a tight aggressive low limit game coupled with earning bonus points every hand you play. Even breaking even at the table will net you a profit when you clear your bonus. I deposited $500 at Ultimate bet and ten days later withdraw $900 just on my bonus and my winnings at 50c/$1 games. If you utilise this strategy I recommend that once you have cleared your bonus that you withdraw all your money and start at another site with a new sign on bonus (I have earned bonuses at ultimate , partypoker , full tilt, paradise and others). The site you withdrew from will contact you pretty soon to tell you about its new sign on bonus !

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