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wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

Here's one that I've wondered how to play...how do you play it when you are the person flopping the set, and how do you play it if you are the person chasing the flush?

FullTiltPoker Game #204132591: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1289561), Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:38:05 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 2: mjose (1,550)
Seat 3: petvet (2,150)
Seat 6: clarechev (2,840)
Seat 7: StonedFaced420 (2,995)
Seat 9: wbtczn (3,965)
petvet posts the small blind of 50
clarechev posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wbtczn [9h 9d]
StonedFaced420 folds
wbtczn raises to 350
mjose folds
petvet calls 300
clarechev calls 250
*** FLOP *** [9s 5s 6s]
petvet checks
clarechev checks
wbtczn bets 600
petvet raises to 1,800, and is all in
clarechev folds
wbtczn calls 1,200
*** TURN *** [9s 5s 6s] [4h]
*** RIVER *** ???? Laughing

[/b]

wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

Why, early in a SNG, would you go all in to someone who raised preflop and came out betting on the flop to chase a flush?

FullTiltPoker Game #204167124: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1289978), Table 1 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:07:39 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: SharkAZ (2,125)
Seat 2: leland1982 (1,075)
Seat 3: nopair3high (1,850)
Seat 4: jayhova2 (1,780)
Seat 5: Bayou Bandit (1,325)
Seat 6: waterboydefend (1,170)
Seat 7: oneway1963 (1,625)
Seat 8: keith3171 (1,250)
Seat 9: wbtczn (1,300)
jayhova2 posts the small blind of 20
Bayou Bandit posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wbtczn [As Jd]
waterboydefend calls 40
oneway1963 folds
keith3171 folds
wbtczn raises to 120
SharkAZ folds
leland1982 folds
nopair3high calls 120
jayhova2 folds
Bayou Bandit folds
waterboydefend calls 80
*** FLOP *** [2s Ah 3s]
waterboydefend bets 40
wbtczn raises to 300
nopair3high calls 300
waterboydefend raises to 1,050, and is all in
wbtczn raises to 1,180, and is all in
nopair3high folds
wbtczn shows [As Jd]
waterboydefend shows [7s 4s]
Uncalled bet of 130 returned to wbtczn
*** TURN *** [2s Ah 3s] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [2s Ah 3s 9c] ???

wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

I must be on a roll...

FullTiltPoker Game #204224235: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290283), Table 1 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:53:27 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: wbtczn (3,000)
Seat 3: 1dp1 (4,410)
Seat 5: stevefb80 (1,265)
Seat 6: Chen Kenichi (1,630)
Seat 7: Bloodtiger (780)
Seat 8: tenchimasaki (1,000)
Seat 9: Utrips (1,415)
Chen Kenichi posts the small blind of 30
Bloodtiger posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wbtczn [Tc Kh]
tenchimasaki calls 60
Utrips folds
wbtczn calls 60
1dp1 folds
stevefb80 calls 60
Chen Kenichi folds
Bloodtiger checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs Ts 5c]
Bloodtiger checks
tenchimasaki checks
wbtczn bets 150
stevefb80 folds
Bloodtiger folds
tenchimasaki calls 150
*** TURN *** [Qs Ts 5c] [Kd]
tenchimasaki has 15 seconds left to act
tenchimasaki bets 790, and is all in
wbtczn calls 790
tenchimasaki shows [9s As]
wbtczn shows [Tc Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Qs Ts 5c Kd] ???

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: When to chase a flush

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Another example

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: And yet another example...

chicagoeddie · Pair Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 50

Well we won't get in to how I play AJ pre-flop in Level 2
Bet the pot on the flop. You're playing it fine. Draws are un the underdawg.
The above is quoted from UrbanMeyer1.

You refer to level 2 above.
Can you tell me what are the different levels?
Thanks.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject:

Level 2 is 20/40 blinds. Level 3 is 25/50 and so on.

wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

Thanks for the insights urbanmeyer. I guess what I was wondering was, am I missing the boat here?

After someone flops 4 to the flush they have 9 outs. According to Phil Gordon, that's roughly a 36% chance to hit the card they need. That means they need 3:1 on their money, correct? And with that said, how can you go all in on Level 2 with only a few hundred in the pot?

Granted, these were all at the $5 level...but I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not undervaluing those hands, either.

For the record, the first and third hands hit their flush. I lost 2 out 3 races there. Crying or Very sad

Zuchov · Royal Flush Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 646

It means they need 2:1 on thier money (they can call a pot sized bet if they think they'll get a free river card, or have good implied odds). And they'll go all in on it early with bad pot odds becuase they're fishies, basically.

wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

2:1 - you're right...typo there. So I'm making the right calls, just had a rough night. I can live with that. In the long run, I'll get it back!!! Laughing

Thanks all for the input.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:

Not to mention it's a bit different in a tournament style, you can't just only think pot odds because if you bust you're out.

You have to include tournament implied odds: chance of busting, chance of elimating someone(more important at the final table of a MTT), chance of doubling up, chance of putting yourself in position to win,etc.

Also think of the opposite: chance of busting on the bubble, not moving up in money, weakening your chances of winning, etc

iuz the old · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject:

Dont get wrapped up in just pot odds - there are times to push in tourney play with just a draw and although you want to avoid it there are also times to call with just a draw if other factors are more important.
If your stack size is becoming less influential at the table it may time to try and double up if you are in a good size pot . If you have a draw to the nut flush for example you know where the nuts are and thats important as well as the outside possibility that your ace might be good. Conversely if you have a big stack against smaller stacks it is often worth it to risk some chips to knock them out. I was eliminated from a tourney in just this way. With a 1500 pot and AAs I pushed my remaining 2700 chips in on a flop of QJ5 and was called by a 9000 stack who showed KT and rivered an ace to do me in. Check out Harrington II on inflection plays also.
Despite the above , dont make these plays early on when stack size and blinds are low. Generally speaking pot odds are more important early on while accumulating chips is not as important as staying out of trouble.

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