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clussman
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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If that was directed at me, you'll notice above that jjpregler quoted an entire post from me that doesn't exist. Immediately after I posted it I realized my mistake and deleted it. But he was too fast. Not only was he too fast, he quoted the entire damn thing. The bastard...  |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1763
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| oh about how you didnt see that he had the straight flush |
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jjpregler
Forum Pro
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 1438
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| clussman wrote: |
If that was directed at me, you'll notice above that jjpregler quoted an entire post from me that doesn't exist. Immediately after I posted it I realized my mistake and deleted it. But he was too fast. Not only was he too fast, he quoted the entire damn thing. The bastard... |
What are you talking about? I did no such thing. |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| asfispimp wrote: |
| what if he only has a set or something Id rather extract more on the river. |
Because the chances of him having a set and playing it this way are extremely low. Most low level omaha players aren't making that type of move and there has been no information which would state he is capable of pulling this off with just a set.
Even then the set may just call the re-raise just to see if he can fill up, depending on how fishy this guy really is.
So let's list his possible choices that the guy would raise the turn with:
- Another straight. Doesn't matter too much as even if you call or raise, you're not going to get any more money from him. He was trying to take this pot down now with a scare card and will probably shut down.
- Lower than A-high flush: This is the most read dependent. If you think villian is very aggressive then you can call and hope he bets the river out for you. You may be able to call and bet the turn if you feel he'd check behind or if the board pairs depending on your read. However, one thing that needs to be stated is villian most likely has you pegged for a straight, and may be willing to challenge you with just about any decent flush if you raise now.
- A high flush: If you raise this turn, he's going broke here. He's got to believe that he's got the nuts at this point and that you're just a stupid fish. If he's got this then calling would be the absolute worst thing you can do. If the board pairs on the river you've just shot yourself in the foot and failed to cash in on a prime opportunity to double up your stack.
All in all raising will generate more profit than calling given the variety of hands that villian is most likely to have. |
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krazybangs
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Beyond Tilt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I am debating pushing here cause with out the nuts is he only gonna call with a straight or a set, or does he even have the nut flush which is dead anyway... if he has a set to back himself up, maybe the river can help him or give him something that may or may not help, but at worse a scare card and shut him down.....
Next action....
*** TURN *** [Jd 7c 8c] [Tc]
Crackmasterd checks
BEvegas checks
KrazyBangs bets $4
Crackmasterd folds
BEvegas raises to $12
KrazyBangs calls $8
*** RIVER *** [Jd 7c 8c Tc] [7h]
BEvegas checks
the 7, did he hit a boat, quads or does he only hold and Ace High Flush?
He checked making no value bet so obivously he knows I am holding something with the raise-call on the turn.... so what are YOU thinking now? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ok now that I'm done kicking myself in the ass for not raising the turn. Your turn call probably sent off a warning sign to the holder of a flush that you had more than a straight on you. If he has a low flush he's worried about you having a higher flush. If he's got the A-high flush he's worried about you having the set to go with the straight.
My next option is to make a really small bet (1/4th to 1/5th the pot at most.) I'm trying for at least a crying call from the A-high flush. The miracle would be if this guy decided to raise your bet thinking you're weak or if he really was stupid (but felt lucky enough) to play the set this way. |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1763
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ok now I think he has a flush thinking that you have a boat at this time but hell I could be wrong Id bet 2 3rds of the pot right here |
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Strasse
Forum Ego
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3930
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Not reraising the turn was a huuuuuuge mistake. I've got him pegged for A high flush, and you probably just threw a lot of profit out the window. I think you might still be able to get payed off for a half pot bet here though. |
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krazybangs
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Beyond Tilt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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OK with 34 in the pot and needing a value bet and hoping he will see it more as buying the pot he might throw in a reraise or just get a call.
Had to go with 1/3 of the pot to atleast make it callable.....
.....
KrazyBangs bets $12.50
BEvegas calls $12.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
KrazyBangs shows [Qd Jc 8h 9c] (a straight flush, Jack high)
BEvegas mucks
KrazyBangs wins the pot ($60) with a straight flush, Jack high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $63 | Rake $3
Board: [Jd 7c 8c Tc 7h]
Seat 1: No Phil Ivey didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: BEvegas mucked [3h 3c Kc 5s] - a flush, King high
So he didnt have the nut flush... so if I reraise after the turn he may have put me on the nut flush and not had anything to call me with unless he had the Ac on the river...
so did I get enough value out of this considering what he WAS holding? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| As I stated last time, with a non-ace flush this would have been read dependent. This guy did seem pretty confident that his K-high flush was good. If you re-raised the turn, he might have called or pushed back because until that point you played the hand exactly like you would play a regular straight. I do believe you got lucky that he called the river bet, as the turn call + board pairing combination should've scared him off. |
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krazybangs
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Beyond Tilt
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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So you dont think if I pushed back on the turn he'd put me on an Ace Flush trying to stop the action?
I wanted to extract value for sure but not knowing his strength weakness getting him an extra card only hurt me, unelss it was the Ac, but I had to assume that everonesnot playing premium suited hands....
Was the river bet too small? |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
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In this situation I'm fine with the size river bet. I might have even made it a little lower. You wanted the crying call from the person that thought they had the best hand on the turn to only lose it on the river and you got it.
The reason why I believe that pushing back on the turn may have worked is because up until his raise you played it exactly like most people would play a straight. You potted the flop because you flopped the nuts. Then the turn comes to complete a flush draw and you bet about half pot.
Now if you have an image that says you pot bet your draws or only bet the nuts, then maybe he can get off of this. However if you don't, then put yourself in his place. Imagine you're the guy with the K-high flush and you raised only to be re-raised. Could you justify the play so far as having just made the A-high flush draw? |
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