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OpDS311 · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: In memory of thundercrew..

...I bring you a tough beat post.

Full Tilt Poker Game #822460572: Table Reno - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 19:34:22 ET - 2006/07/22
Seat 1: McEastwood ($6.55)
Seat 2: Memorew ($35.45)
Seat 3: mike7631 ($17.95)
Seat 4: Mr299 ($14.95)
Seat 5: mick247 ($12.55)
Seat 6: Bonzodrums0 ($14.65)
Seat 7: T Daddy ($9.25)
Seat 8: PigTim ($9.25)
Seat 9: shadoe3 ($7.90)
PigTim posts the small blind of $0.10
shadoe3 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shadoe3 [7h 9c]
McEastwood folds
Memorew folds
mike7631 calls $0.25
Mr299 folds
mick247 folds
Bonzodrums0 folds
T Daddy folds
PigTim calls $0.15
shadoe3 checks
*** FLOP *** [Kd 4c 7c]
PigTim checks
shadoe3 checks
mike7631 bets $0.25
PigTim folds
shadoe3 calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [Kd 4c 7c] [2d]
shadoe3 checks
mike7631 bets $0.50
shadoe3 calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [Kd 4c 7c 2d] [Td]
shadoe3 checks
mike7631 bets $0.50
shadoe3 calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mike7631 shows [Jh Th] (a pair of Tens)
shadoe3 shows [7h 9c] (a pair of Sevens)
mike7631 wins the pot ($3.10) with a pair of Tens
shadoe3: really?
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.25 | Rake $0.15
Board: [Kd 4c 7c 2d Td]
Seat 1: McEastwood didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Memorew didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: mike7631 showed [Jh Th] and won ($3.10) with a pair of Tens
Seat 4: Mr299 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: mick247 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Bonzodrums0 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: T Daddy (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: PigTim (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: shadoe3 (big blind) showed [7h 9c] and lost with a pair of Sevens

stevn · Message Board Junkie Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 1117

worst beat i have ever seen

mathman1115 · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject:

If you are going to call all the way to the river, why aren't you betting??
Middle pair is a good hand there in that situation.

OpDS311 · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

OpDS311 · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:

stevn · Message Board Junkie Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 1117

GripHoldOn · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:28 am Post subject:

If a player fairly certain that he has the best of it, even with a medium strength hand, it's okay to just call if he feels that his opponent will continue to fire bluffs on subsequent streets. It's even okay not to raise on the end if that player does opt to slowplay a medium strength hand in this manner, because even though he feels he has the best of it, why throw away even more money if he is wrong, if it can't gain him anything when he is right?

Howard Lederer recounts a hand he played with Johnny Chan many years ago in a Main Event. Howard had only 33 on a board of something along the lines of J 9 6. Chan bet out, and Howard says on the hand that his vision was very clear. He had the best hand and he knew it. But instead of raising, he merely called Chan. The turn and river were both deuces and Chan fired on both streets, moving all-in on the river. Howard called lightning fast and his threes were good. If he had taken the lead back on the flop, he would have passed up the chance to make all of that money.

Of course, there's a time and place for everything, ad usually, it's better just to raise, but OpDS seems to have been confident in his read, and I like how he played it. I disagree however that he should have been setting up a raise on the end for the reason bolded in the first paragraph.

OpDS311 · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:37 am Post subject:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8490 Location: Sweden

Yeah, that hand is nowhere near strong enough for a river raise. As some of you might know, I'm not as quick to advocate raising just because you have the best hand as some people. I think calling is a bit underestimated on this forum.

steve-nash123 · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:10 am Post subject:

mathman1115 · Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:

Yes but even if the pair of 7s is the best hand there on the flop and turn, you are not charging your opponent to outdraw you. You are very vulnerable to over cards in that situation, and a pair of 7s is not a hand you slowplay whether you think your opponent is bluffing at you or not.
I suppose just calling the flop is ok, but after the 2d hits on the turn, you need to raise him on the turn as it is unlikely the 2 helped his hand.
By raising on the turn, he is likely to right there, and you could have won the pot instead of getting outdrawn by a lousy TJ. He may give you credit for a K there and not even chase anymore.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8490 Location: Sweden

Calling here is not sowplaying mathman, it's just getting value out of a mediocre hand while keeping the pot small at the same time. I think that if we want to force our opponent to pay for a draw, betting the turn is a better option. But our hand is just a bluffcatcher, so why not let him bluff?

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