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shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

Full Tilt Poker Game #821218167: $11 + $1 Sit & Go (Turbo) (5456966), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:31:51 ET - 2006/07/22
Seat 1: golfbigmike (1,485)
Seat 2: QatMan (1,635)
Seat 3: jncooldad (1,860)
Seat 4: smoodoc (1,470)
Seat 5: STLcards82 (1,500)
Seat 6: Shweta (1,245)
Seat 7: EvO420KiNg (1,470)
Seat 8: mike0013 (1,335)
Seat 9: jerseypro (1,500)
smoodoc posts the small blind of 15
STLcards82 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Shweta [Ac As]
Shweta raises to 150
EvO420KiNg folds
mike0013 folds
jerseypro calls 150
golfbigmike folds
QatMan folds
jncooldad calls 150
jerseypro: here we go
smoodoc folds
STLcards82 calls 120
*** FLOP *** [7c 8s Ts]
STLcards82 bets 1,350, and is all in
Shweta calls 1,095, and is all in
jerseypro calls 1,350, and is all in
jncooldad calls 1,350
STLcards82 shows [Ad Qh]
Shweta shows [Ac As]
jerseypro shows [Qs 5s]
jncooldad shows [Td Qd]
*** TURN *** [7c 8s Ts] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [7c 8s Ts 6s] [Kh]
STLcards82 shows Ace King high
jerseypro shows a flush, Queen high
jncooldad shows a pair of Tens
jerseypro wins the side pot (765) with a flush, Queen high
Shweta shows a pair of Aces
jerseypro wins the main pot (4,995) with a flush, Queen high
jerseypro: thanks
Shweta stands up
STLcards82 stands up
The blinds are now 20/40
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,760 Main pot 4,995. Side pot 765. | Rake 0
Board: [7c 8s Ts 6s Kh]
Seat 1: golfbigmike didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: QatMan didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: jncooldad (button) showed [Td Qd] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 4: smoodoc (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: STLcards82 (big blind) showed [Ad Qh] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 6: Shweta showed [Ac As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 7: EvO420KiNg didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: mike0013 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: jerseypro showed [Qs 5s] and won (5,760) with a flush, Queen high

shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

I don't get why you would call 5 times big blind with Q 5...and I don't get why you would call 2 all ins on a draw...I just don't get it.

Then he says thanks like he made the right move all along....

OpDS311 · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:

Well, that is a dangerous board for pocket aces, so that all-in is likely to induce a maniac to call you with a draw.

drowsy · Royal Flush Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 990 Location: Ohio

Calling a 5x pre-flop raise with Q5 suited does seem excessive to me. But, after the flop, shouldn't he of called the bet?

He was getting the odds to call, wasn't he?

If I figured this right, there was 615 in the pot pre-flop. Then STL's and Shweta's all-ins put another 2,445 in the pot for a total of 3,060. The pot was giving jerseypro 2.26-1 odds to make his flush. Since the odds of making a flush draw is 1.9-1, jerseypro made the mathematically correct call, yes?

Thats in a cash game anyway. In a tournament situation I understand that there are other factors, both pro and con, for making such a call.

Or am I missing something completely?

edit: changed odds of making flush from 2.2

shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

I agree he had pot odds but at some point common sense has to kick in...

I mean what could he have possibly put us on?

As Js has him dominated
As Ks has him dominated
Trips there could be a possibility for full house
big pockets that have his live cards dominated
If one of the two all ins have spades...that means he has less outs

he is going all in hoping that no one has bigger spades and basically knowing his Q and 5 are no good...just a spade can help.

Risking 90% of your stack on a 20-30% draw doesn't seem too smart to me.

Then again it worked out for him and here I am venting on the forums Laughing

It also didn't help that the guy was a complete jacka$s...if you didn't notice by his comments.

shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

Almost forgot to mention the 4th guy calling 3 all ins with Q 10...

If I could only get into his head and see his thought process at that point:

"Me like chips, chips pretty, chips good"

mathman1115 · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject:

I think the Q5s made a good call after the flop as he was getting good odds and had 9 outs to take control of the tourney. I don't understand his preflop call though........
Anyway, this is a tough beat, but the only thing you can do here is fold your AA postflop. Even if it is the best hand, there are a ton of possible draws out there and you could even be beat already. the problem with big pp (especially AA) is they are hard to improve unless you hit a set. I understand its hard to let go of in a situation like that, and i don't think you made a bad play calling the original all in. But as it turns out with two others calling it after your call, you would have wanted to fold.

dodge these · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject:

I don't mind the call with the AA as he was second to act though t would have been much more questionable if he already had 3 all ins in front of him even though he was still ahead in the hand. That in my mind makes teh last call by QT actually the worst play of them all. The early position bluff with AQ and teh preflop action also quite questionable though a bluff is never as bad as a call in my opinion. Now for the guy that catually won the hand... he might have been getting the proper odds to call in this case (ignoring that his tournament life is also at stake) but what does he actually think he is up against. With an all in and a call in front you would have to think best case scenario you're up against an overpair and a smaller flush draw. Worst case scenario up against A set and a better flush draw. Factor those into the thinking and the odds no longer look as favorable toward making that decission.

shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

I tend to agree with dodge there...I could somewhat justify the move in a cash game, I know a lot of friends that play high stakes cash games and would have made the same call (I still wouldn't have in a cash game either but that would explain why I suck at cash games). In a cash game you can reload and there is probably alot of money in the pot...but tourney I still don't like the move.

I just don't understand the thought process...if I were in his shoes, I would have put the first all in on a draw (which is what my read was, all in that position was fishy, I definitely knew he didn't hit a straight or trips, way too big of a raise)...but the second all in call would have really scared me. I would assume the first guy was either on a flush draw or straight draw. If its a flush draw then that's total of 7 outs left...I know my Q 5 don't matter when I put the second all in on over pair. so 7 outs...approx 28% chance of hitting (estimate I can't pull out my odds calculator at work Wink

)....90% of stack on a 28% draw, to me is a no brainer fold, since if I call and lose, that's my tourney.

True he had about 2:1 pot odds but I would definitely save my chips for a better situation.

Probably over analyzing way too much but I'm bored at work and gives me something to do Laughing

Let me know how you guys would have played it in this situation, just to get a different perspective.

poKKerstAAr · Pair Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 36

this is retarded, my friends tourney...

Full Tilt Poker Game #831256150: $10 + $1 Tournament (5375471), Table 13 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:54:46 ET - 2006/07/25
NDL18 is feeling normal
Seat 1: crushu (1,645)
Seat 2: SA Grumps (7,150)
Seat 3: TennisPlaya33 (6,028)
Seat 4: -Hexx- (2,700), is sitting out
Seat 5: JensenDK (2,530)
Seat 6: NDL18 (4,312)
Seat 7: UGotServed21 (1,340)
Seat 8: stallion3401 (2,975)
Seat 9: badFingBEATS (465)
stallion3401 posts the small blind of 50
badFingBEATS posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to badFingBEATS [Kh Qd]
crushu folds
SA Grumps calls 100
TennisPlaya33 folds
-Hexx- folds
JensenDK folds
NDL18 folds
UGotServed21 folds
stallion3401 folds
badFingBEATS raises to 465, and is all in
SA Grumps calls 365
badFingBEATS shows [Kh Qd]
SA Grumps shows [7c 8c]
*** FLOP *** [Jd Qc 2d]
*** TURN *** [Jd Qc 2d] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Qc 2d 4c] [9c]
badFingBEATS shows a pair of Queens
SA Grumps shows a flush, Queen high
SA Grumps wins the pot (980) with a flush, Queen high
badFingBEATS stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 980 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd Qc 2d 4c 9c]
Seat 1: crushu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: SA Grumps showed [7c 8c] and won (980) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: TennisPlaya33 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: -Hexx- didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: JensenDK didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: NDL18 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: UGotServed21 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: stallion3401 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: badFingBEATS (big blind) showed [Kh Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens

shweta · Four of a Kind Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 317

See, I actually don't think that's a bad move since the guy has a huge chip stack. Suited connectors is a good hand, specially when you got the chips to gamble.

He already committed 100 by calling the blind...when short stack went all in for 365 more...SA Grumps has to risk 5% of his stack to knock someone out. And he has to put the person on high cards so he knows he has live cards. It's definitely a gamble but with that stack he can afford to gamble.

Now if the guy had gone all in with like 3000 chips and he had called it would be a different story...then he is risking more than 40% of his stack.

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