Online Poker Forum - When to finally push it

MRMUSIC2 · High Card Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 15

Is there a good general rule as to the amount of chips you have, or number of chips in comparison to the big blind that you need, to go all in even with a marginal hand. Example: If you play 9 person SNG with $1500 in starting chips there is a total of $13500 in chips in play. Lets say there are 4 left. Blinds are $100-$200 and you have $800 in chips. Do you wait another round so that you are down to $500 in chips before you go all in or do you go all in with the $800 no matter what your hand is. Is $800 to low since this means you only have 6% of the chips in play?

I play a lot of SNG over the past 2 years and can honestly say I am ahead of the game however I finish 4th more than I should. I play tight and play position however it seems when it gets 4 way I am many times low in chips because of playing tight.

I have never read anything on this however I am hoping there is a general rule I am missing as to going all if your stack is under X times the BB.

Thanks

Mr Music 2

DarkJackal · High Card Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 16

Switch up your play when your down to 4 players since you made your reputation just play aggresive and the otehr 3 will respect you enough to fold with any marginal hand because they seen you play really tight. Thats what I do anyways you shouldnt just play tight all game thats how you lose most of the time, when you dont get enough chips to sit back and watch them knock each other out. Switching up your style is very important in tournaments

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: When to finally push it

GripHoldOn · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject:

I am a fan of making a move early enough so that if you win, you have enough chips with which to operate. If you sit back and wait for the real good hand to move-in with:

A) It may never come.

B) It may come at a point when you need to double up twice or three times to get yourself back in the hunt.

I'd rather be all-in as an underdog with a chance to get lucky and have a solid chip stack, than sit back and wait for the big hand that may never come or may come too late to help me. If you get down to 10 BB you definitely want to be moving-in if you play a pot, but I think moving in is fine with as many as 20 BB. If you have 800 when blinds are 100-200, there are probably only two or three other players left. The average stack among them is 5000. You are going to have to get very lucky to put yourself back in this one, whether you find a hand or not. Go for the double up or the steal early, while you still have enough chips to scare your opponents off of a hand, as well as give you a solid chip stack if you do get called and get lucky.

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4179

You want to push when you're that shortstacked. If you wait, you won't have enough chips to make your bet scary. If you're forced all in as big blind, you're much more likely to be beaten than if you can raise and hope to take down the blinds. And since when you have only 10x BB you don't have enough to effectively play post-flop, you've gotta push or fold.

WatZot · Full House Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 216

Harrington on Holdem Volume 2... Has What I think an excellent discusion of what to do when you get into those blinded out/short stack situations. He calls it M. Basically M is your ration of blinds to your chip stack.

weirdobob · High Card Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 10

I bought Harrington's books (both volumes) and I agree that his "M" philosophy is a good one to follow.

I would also like to say that even though each volume is $30 I think they are definately worth it as there are tons of information in there. I know in my case it has not only helped my overall play; but my heads-up especially because it seemed like I used to get a lot of 2nds; but since reading his chapter on heads-up play my record once I get to heads-up has been a lot better.

As a matter of fact, not to brag, but I had back to back wins last night.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:53 pm Post subject:

Pushing w/ over 10x blinds in a move other than to maybe take down a few limpers is not a correct play. 11x or 12x is more acceptable, but if you have that many you can afford to be waiting on a hand.

iuz the old · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject:

The most important thing about short stack play is being first to enter the pot not so much the cards. Dont be afraid to push it with 87s - in many ways it is a more dangerous holding than Ax as potential callers tend to have aces too.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: Re:

jbrennen · Straight Flush Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 422

I don't think this is so dependent on how many BB's you have, so much as what your stack is relative to the others at the table. (Until the last 3 to 4 rounds before you get blinded out, where you're just desperate.)

Once the other players have a large advantage to you in stack size (somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1), they won't respect your All-In.

In that situation, if you're UTG and go all-in, you have to expect the very real possibility that the entire field will call you and check down to a showdown in a cooperative attempt to take you out.

Try to make sure that your All-In bets end up one-on-one, and try to make them against a player who you can actually hurt (somebody with less than 5 times your stack).

Just as some statistics, these are the preflop hands you need to have a better than 50-50 chance to beat the entire field at showdown (the hands shown as marginal are between 49% - 50% to hold up)...

3 players left: AKs, or 9-9 or better (marginal: AQs or 8-8 )
4 players left: Q-Q or better (marginal: J-J)
5 players left: A-A (marginal: K-K)
6 players left: nothing (marginal: A-A)

That doesn't mean that in a 6-player table, if you're the big blind and it comes around to you after a raise and a reraise and two players are active, you should go all-in with 9-9. The difference is that the raiser and reraiser can't be assumed to have random hands -- they've already shown strength. In that situation, I'd probably only go all-in with A-A.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject:

It does depend on the size of your stack too though as well as the size of everyone else's stack as well as position. This the reason for ICM.

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