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se7en10
Four of a Kind
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 308
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 Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| griffinlord wrote: |
| jussurreal wrote: |
| griffinlord wrote: |
| ...or just bounce your internet traffic off of a server in Great Britian. |
How would one go about doing this? I'm assuming its not illegal therefore not illegal for you to tell me how to do it. |
I don't actually know how to do this, if I need to, and I find out, I'll certainly share. |
While it's possible to reroute your traffic, it doesn't circumvent the fact that it would still be illegal to place a bet/wager from US soil. Considering that poker sites are outside and above US law, it's not like the US can make them ban connections from US IP blocks, or make them report anyone connecting from the US.
I wonder if new and incoming laws will make it illegal for US banks to accept money from non-US poker sites, or from non-US "quasi-banks", (epassporte, netteller, etc). It is, after all, the money and the money's movement that the gov cares about. If they have control of the money, it's not like gambling is a problem anymore.
-7 |
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jussurreal
Pair
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| se7en10 wrote: |
| griffinlord wrote: |
| jussurreal wrote: |
| griffinlord wrote: |
| ...or just bounce your internet traffic off of a server in Great Britian. |
How would one go about doing this? I'm assuming its not illegal therefore not illegal for you to tell me how to do it. |
I don't actually know how to do this, if I need to, and I find out, I'll certainly share. |
While it's possible to reroute your traffic, it doesn't circumvent the fact that it would still be illegal to place a bet/wager from US soil. Considering that poker sites are outside and above US law, it's not like the US can make them ban connections from US IP blocks, or make them report anyone connecting from the US.
I wonder if new and incoming laws will make it illegal for US banks to accept money from non-US poker sites, or from non-US "quasi-banks", (epassporte, netteller, etc). It is, after all, the money and the money's movement that the gov cares about. If they have control of the money, it's not like gambling is a problem anymore.
-7 |
They can make the US ISP's block connections to any and all gambling sites, which is what the bill says from what I understand. Which would be something that you could not get around.....at least I don't know of any way to.
The money part however would be easy to get around, people could just use Western Union. Poker sites would start using Western Union. No way for the government to track this really. However I would not do this nor am I advising anyone to do it. I'm just saying that it's something others might do. |
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se7en10
Four of a Kind
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| jussurreal wrote: |
| They can make the US ISP's block connections to any and all gambling sites, which is what the bill says from what I understand. Which would be something that you could not get around.....at least I don't know of any way to. |
You are right, they could, as in, it is possible they could make a law requiring the blocking of certain IP destinations...but doesn't that sound more like China than the US?
Can you cite a source that demonstrates that the law will indeed mandate ISPs to "block" certain remote sites? I can't help thinking that this idea goes totally opposite of what this country is all about.
Thanks,
-7 |
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Jaconda78
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 4177
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| I believe the law in congress now refers to making banks police their customers, not blocking URLs via the ISPs. |
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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2122
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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So...what country am I going to move to?....
jk |
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deadmoney314
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 3226
Location: grunching through reply posts
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: ... |
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I've already thought of many ways to circumvent this, but here's the million dollar idea that I'll post for free. I should really hold on to this idea and pitch it to a tribal casino (Mystic Lake comes to mind) and keep a finder's fee.
The trick is to not be playing on US soil. Tribal casinos could have a LAN room, even build a warehouse type thing to support hundreds of customers. In addition, they could offer pay services where you can cash in and out through the casino so you get your winnings or take your losses immediately rather than going through any intermediary. This would be very attractive for most as one of the pains of internet poker is not having access to funds immediately.
I'm sure online poker rooms would flock to this idea and even make things streamlined for the processes involved. |
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jussurreal
Pair
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| deadmoney314 wrote: |
I've already thought of many ways to circumvent this, but here's the million dollar idea that I'll post for free. I should really hold on to this idea and pitch it to a tribal casino (Mystic Lake comes to mind) and keep a finder's fee.
The trick is to not be playing on US soil. Tribal casinos could have a LAN room, even build a warehouse type thing to support hundreds of customers. In addition, they could offer pay services where you can cash in and out through the casino so you get your winnings or take your losses immediately rather than going through any intermediary. This would be very attractive for most as one of the pains of internet poker is not having access to funds immediately.
I'm sure online poker rooms would flock to this idea and even make things streamlined for the processes involved. |
The big problem with this idea is that I live nowhere near a tribal casino. And I'm sure most other Americans don't. |
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jussurreal
Pair
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| se7en10 wrote: |
| jussurreal wrote: |
| They can make the US ISP's block connections to any and all gambling sites, which is what the bill says from what I understand. Which would be something that you could not get around.....at least I don't know of any way to. |
You are right, they could, as in, it is possible they could make a law requiring the blocking of certain IP destinations...but doesn't that sound more like China than the US?
Can you cite a source that demonstrates that the law will indeed mandate ISPs to "block" certain remote sites? I can't help thinking that this idea goes totally opposite of what this country is all about.
Thanks,
-7 |
WELCOME TO THE NEW AMERICA..........WHERE FREEDOM DOESNT RING.
"The bill, sponsored by a Virginia Republican, Robert Goodlatte, would compel Internet Service Providers (ISPs) serving the American public -- well-known examples are AOL, Earthlink and WorldNet -- to block sites offering gambling. It would also punish Internet venues that allowed Americans to place bets online. The players themselves would not be penalized, and the bill would maintain a hands-off approach toward certain types of gambling, specifically pari-mutuel games and lotteries, currently permitted in many states."
However this article as a whole gives me a more positive outlook on the situation.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/05/gambling4_5.a.tm/index.html?related |
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se7en10
Four of a Kind
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jussurreal wrote: |
"The bill, sponsored by a Virginia Republican, Robert Goodlatte, would compel Internet Service Providers (ISPs) serving the American public -- well-known examples are AOL, Earthlink and WorldNet -- to block sites offering gambling. It would also punish Internet venues that allowed Americans to place bets online. The players themselves would not be penalized, and the bill would maintain a hands-off approach toward certain types of gambling, specifically pari-mutuel games and lotteries, currently permitted in many states."
However this article as a whole gives me a more positive outlook on the situation.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/05/gambling4_5.a.tm/index.html?related |
Uh.... Well, that article was written/posted in 2000, so I would imagine it is actually concerning one of the last times a bill was devised to control online gambling.
That is why what you said sounded so strange to me: That bill was very close to censorship, blocking IPs or destinations, and it's just not a method that America seems willing to accept to control a problem (usually). (Check out the last paragraph of that article; they even mention that that bill seemed more like something China would do.)
What we -- our representatives, that is -- do seem to be more willing to accept, is control of our actions by the regulation and monitoring of our money. Which is what the current bill seems to be about. I found an opening address that declared what the current bill is about, and as Jaconda said, it seems more an attempt to control our actions by making it difficult/impossible to move our money around to the "wrong places".
-7 |
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jussurreal
Pair
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| se7en10 wrote: |
| jussurreal wrote: |
"The bill, sponsored by a Virginia Republican, Robert Goodlatte, would compel Internet Service Providers (ISPs) serving the American public -- well-known examples are AOL, Earthlink and WorldNet -- to block sites offering gambling. It would also punish Internet venues that allowed Americans to place bets online. The players themselves would not be penalized, and the bill would maintain a hands-off approach toward certain types of gambling, specifically pari-mutuel games and lotteries, currently permitted in many states."
However this article as a whole gives me a more positive outlook on the situation.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/05/gambling4_5.a.tm/index.html?related |
Uh.... Well, that article was written/posted in 2000, so I would imagine it is actually concerning one of the last times a bill was devised to control online gambling.
That is why what you said sounded so strange to me: That bill was very close to censorship, blocking IPs or destinations, and it's just not a method that America seems willing to accept to control a problem (usually). (Check out the last paragraph of that article; they even mention that that bill seemed more like something China would do.)
What we -- our representatives, that is -- do seem to be more willing to accept, is control of our actions by the regulation and monitoring of our money. Which is what the current bill seems to be about. I found an opening address that declared what the current bill is about, and as Jaconda said, it seems more an attempt to control our actions by making it difficult/impossible to move our money around to the "wrong places".
-7 |
Sorry about posting that old article. I'm still about 70% sure that the new one (4777) says the same thing about the blocking of the gambling sites.
However after reading more articles and forums about whats going on, I am not nearly as worried about it as I was. It just doesn't seem as threatening as I thought. |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2454
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| se7en10 wrote: |
You are right, they could, as in, it is possible they could make a law requiring the blocking of certain IP destinations...but doesn't that sound more like China than the US? |
Certainly does have a totalitarian flavor about it, doesn't it.
One of the reasons I don't think the law will last. Just a matter of time before someone figures out that if you can block poker sites you can block any other flavor of site. |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2454
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ambitious207 wrote: |
So...what country am I going to move to?....
jk |
Well, I've heard that Finland set up a state owned online poker site. I've also hear that parts of mexico and certain carabian (sp?) islands are fairly nice and not horribly expensive. |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2454
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| jussurreal wrote: |
The big problem with this idea is that I live nowhere near a tribal casino. And I'm sure most other Americans don't. |
Would it actually have to be a casino? Wouldn't any random internet cafe on tribal lands do?
Can the tribes claim sovergienty over an internet coffee shop they build on land they own off the reservation? |
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jussurreal
Pair
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| griffinlord wrote: |
| jussurreal wrote: |
The big problem with this idea is that I live nowhere near a tribal casino. And I'm sure most other Americans don't. |
Would it actually have to be a casino? Wouldn't any random internet cafe on tribal lands do?
Can the tribes claim sovergienty over an internet coffee shop they build on land they own off the reservation? |
I'm not sure about the answer to this question. But still....I don't live near any tribal lands. How many "tribal lands" are there? The only ones I've heard of are in Oklahoma and Washington state. |
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AP KING
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 1461
Location: Wed, Fri, and Saturdays I'm at my usual home games, but on sundays I'll be eating riddims cheerios.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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There are many tribal lands here in CA.
With all the banning I will be visiting many casinos and will possibly have to move to reno. |
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