Online Poker Forum - Getting Very Discouraged

Pacey Witter · Two Pair Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 69

i am currently playing the $11 s&g's & am very very discouraged, I try to play solid poker & improve my game & decision making but I feel like its nearly impossible because there are so many maniacs at this level, maybe other levels too, dont know. ex- last s&g i got dealt pocket kings, person in front of me raised preflop to 140 i reraise to 500 thinking thats a big enough amt where he'll either fold or maybe go all in, he calls, he had aj offsuit. he paired his ace on the flop which doesnt bother me, cuz it happens, but tells me after the hand that if i had reraised all in he PROBABLY would have folded. it seems like that is the only strategy that works against these maniacs, go all in & hope u win coin toss or your pair holds up. i feel like i cant improve my game or use any skill & its getting very depressing. i try to respect others raises but when i find out some of the hands people are going all in with or reraising with it astonishes me. I mean i dont feel the need to reraise all in with the kings, in addition if they do hold up id like to take a bigger pot down than just the blinds & the 140 from the original raiser. What do i do?

GripHoldOn · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:

It's going to cost him another 360 to see the flop, and it will give him a potential to win about 720, plus whatever is left in your stack, which is probably about 1000. He's getting about 4.8 to 1 if he's sure he can win all of your money if an ace hits, and he's about 4.5 to 1 to hit his ace on the flop. In a perfect world, he could make this call, but he has to be sure of a few things. He has to be sure that you'll pay him off if an ace hits. He has to be sure you have KK or QQ and not AK or AQ, which in itself implies that he has to fold if the flop comes Jxx. If he were to call and then fold on a flop with no help, he'd have 1000 left, which is still ok with the blinds just at 20-40. Granted, he probably wasn't sure about all those things, and this made the call slightly -EV. However, if you had raised to 700 or so, the call would have been VERY -EV. You want players making these kinds of bad calls against you, and if they get lucky, then that's good because it will compel them to do it more often.

BOYNAMEDSUE · Moderator Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 9111 Location: Mypos

I dunno Grip.

I've heard of implied odds, but calling a reraise with AJ thinking you'll win all his chips with just an A? Sure, his reraise could mean JJ, QQ, or KK, but it could just of easily meant AQ or AK. With implied odds, you should be sure you'll win big if your hand hits. I just can't see that with AJo.

Loose call, I think.

But Grip is right in saying you want your opponents to make mistakes, regardless of whether they get lucky or not. Sometimes they luck out, but most of the times they just end up giving away their chips. In his case, the A only flops 18%(?) of the time. He'll flop a J as top pair sometimes too; he'll pay you back then.

JS13_TPS · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:01 am Post subject:

Most online play I have observed players will call an all in with any A. You just have play good poker and know they won't beat you in the long run.

Going all in preflop eliminates getting bluffed if an A does hit on the flop.

according to cardplayer.com KK beats AJo 71% of the time. I'll push with those odds all day.

GripHoldOn · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:

Heh, I really don't think this was a good call on his part. It is not one I would have made. However, if you are sure he has kings and you are sure that he will pay you off with an ace hits, it's pretty much a break even call. I don't think that the caller here was sure of this though, so he certainly should have folded, but it would have been a MUCH worse call if you had re-raised more before the flop. You want your opponents making as big mistakes as possible.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:

These guys dont think like that, so don't give them credit for it. He committed chips to the pot & they are never willing to get away from it very easily. Post the actual HH next time, but your line was obviously fine.

Pacey Witter · Two Pair Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 69

yeah, i dont think most of the players at this level at least really factor in pot odds, or even try to figure out what i may hold, they just figure with an ace & decent side card theyr gonna call cuz they think ace anything is a premium starting hand, but ur right in that i probably shdve reraised a little more preflop, its a hard decision how much to reraise cuz if the ace does flop u dont want to have commited nearly all your stack early on.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: Re:

iuz the old · Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:12 pm Post subject:

I think a 3x reraise is fine. There is no need to provoke a push or fold here with a monster reraise as you will either win a piddly 100+ chips or spot him 5 cards to hit an ace - KKs deserves better than that. I am all for making him make a mistake but let him do it on the flop - which by the way he has already made one by calling a reraise with AJ. I drop that quicker than a hot spud.

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