Online Poker Forum - Monster Flop vs. PF Raiser - Best Value Line?

NilesMonkey

Micro-stakes SnG, as always. Table was extremely loose-passive, hence the limp. PF raiser was min-raising quite a lot, usually with decent holdings. Seat 7 doubled up on second hand flopping two pair w/junk; has shown a tendency to play less than stellar cards.

I was on the fence about calling the PF raise, but I went with it mainly because of the implied odds of being in the hand with a moron and a person who likes their hand enough to break away from their min-raise leash. Plus, I am perfectly comfortable with a stack of 2500, so this isn't too much of a risk for me.

Blinds 50/100

Seat 1 - 2,464
Seat 2 (dealer)- 1,262
Seat 3 (SB) - 2,100
Seat 5 (BB) - 2,111
Seat 6 - 818
Seat 7 - 3,157
Seat 10 (Hero) - 3,088

Dealt to Hero - 8 Heart

8

Seat 6 folds
Seat 7 calls 100
Hero calls 100
Seat 1 raises to 500
Seat 2 -> Seat 5 fold
Seat 7 calls 400
Hero calls 400

Flop: 8 Diamond

J

Seat 7 bets 100
Hero ???

Do I just call, and try to entice the PF raiser to put in a raise? Or is slow playing FPS here?

Rhys Parslow · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:48 am Post subject:

i wouldnt slow play because there is obviously the chance he has a jack and could hit a higher full house if you let him see turn and river you may aswell come over the top and either take his raise or let him call with a jack and win the flip that u are dominating

Aelfinn · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:30 am Post subject:

CitizenCain

ThePhoenix78 · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

I like just calling here. Let somebody hit the straight or flush, in case the draws are out there or let somebody think their overpair is good. Ok, as someone said, you're giving somebody with trip Js a chance to outdraw you, but they only have 4 outs, so I think it's worth it to slow play to entice the PFR to continue his aggresson postflop by maybe sticking in a raise after the other guy and you have appeared weak.

PokerJessO · Royal Flush Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 612

The flop min-bet from EP = flush draw extremely often, especially at low levels. I would definitely just call here and hope either he hits his flush on the turn, or the original raiser raises the flop.

NilesMonkey · Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:39 am Post subject:

CitizenCain · Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject:

Check, expect donk to bet river and call off stack to reraise.

If you don't like waiting 'til the river, you could always bet out ~500, and expect to be raised.

NilesMonkey · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:24 am Post subject:

I was concerned that Seat 7 would try to check it down after the action killer on the turn, so I decided to put a small bet out of 250. He called, and then proceeded to min-bet a blank river card. I raised to 750, which he called and showed KJ offsuit.

I wanted to check my flop and turn plays, mainly because I was afraid that I lost value here. I started some results oriented thinking, saying to myself "I should have just shoved, he would have insta-called with his trip jacks! The 10d scared him off!"

But I think slow playing works better here because I get more value if:
a) he doesn't have a jack and bluffs
b) he has a draw and makes it
c) he has a jack and overplays it

I'm still not sure if Seat 7 was playing cautious due to the board texture, or simply playing stupid-passive. Ended up winning this SnG anyway, but I just wanted to run it through the wringer.

iuz the old · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject:

I call here as most of the time your opponents don't have much. A flush draw is drawing dead and an overpair (from the pfr.) will only have 2 outs and may commit himself with a raise on this flop. If he sees a bet and a raise he should conclude that there is a Jack out there and get away fom his hand. A bet and a call may make him suspicious but he may reason that he is up against a smaller PP and a flush draw in which case he will at least call but may raise. He may also call with overs which hopefully he will hit.

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