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KDavidC87
High Card
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: How many buyins I need to play in 1+0.25 sng multitabling in 6 tables? |
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| Hi, I need to know how many buyins is recommended to have in order to play in 1+0.25 sng turbo, playing at 6 tables at the same time. |
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uconnrounder
Two Pair
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Do yourself a favor...don't ever play these. The rake is too high and you will likely find the same level of player at the $2+.25 games. You will need fewer buy-ins for the 2.25s than you will for the 1.25s because the rake is 1/8 the buy-in vs 1/4. Having between 50-75 buy-ins for this level should be more than enough if you have a moderate understanding of how to play sngs correctly. |
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Azonicbh
Pair
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Have to agree with uconn on this , AVOID 1+0.25 at all cost. I might be a bit more risk taker than uconn on this , but I would go as far as to say that you should avoid the 2+0.25 as well , as the rake is still quite high on these. I strongly suggest that you go to the 6+0.50 games even if that means not practicing good bankroll management to start off with.
I would go as far as to say go ahead to the 6,50$ games with a 20 buy in bankroll. Only do this if you have a good understanding of SnG strategy and are willing to go broke because it might happen. If you take this method , avoid playing more than 4 tables at once. If not , then like uconn said , you can stick to the 2,25$ games , but you'll still be overpaying a bit in rake.
Don't get me wrong , I use a 100+ buy in bankroll , but at lower stakes to avoid paying too much in rake , I usually suggest to people to just start of at the 6,50$ games to avoid paying too much rake , even if it means taking more risk. |
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templar rage
Royal Flush
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 771
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Azonicbh wrote: |
| but I would go as far as to say that you should avoid the 2+0.35 as well , as the rake is still quite high on these. |
It's not really that high compared. I'd rather play a game with 12.5% rake sufficiently rolled over a game with 8.33% rake under-rolled. I wouldn't recommend that someone go play higher under-rolled for as trivial a reason as slightly lower-than-average rake, especially if they are still learning.
For OP, I'd say 50 buy-ins is a good starting point. You can have fewer or more depending on how risk-adverse you are, but I wouldn't really go under 35. You may want a few more if you will be 6-tabling, and a few more still because I believe turbos are higher variance than standard speed SNGs, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that. |
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Azonicbh
Pair
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Templar , it all depends on how much risk you are willing to take and how good of a sit n go player you are. But personally , I would hop on to the 6,50$ anytime with a 20 buy in for a few reasons.
-Like I said , I would rather play a bit higher stakes where the rake % stabilizes. Even if it means playing a bigger % of my bankroll
- I have good understanding of sit n goes
- I'm stable enough financially to dig back into my pockets if I go broke for another 20 buy ins. I also understand that with this amount , there is a possibility of going broke.
- I will move up to the next level faster , even if I want 40 buy ins for the next level .
As for the 11$ buy ins , I wouldn't play them until I had 40 buy ins like I mentioned. As for any buy in beyond that , I would not play them unless I had 100 buy ins has the 22$+ games as better opponents thus more variance.
If you can't deal with the 4 points I mentioned above, then by all means adopt a more conservative approach like uconn or templar suggested.
As for bankroll for multitabling . I would only avoid multitabling more than 4 tables at once unless you have a 50 buy in bankroll. If you want to multitable more than 8 games , you should definitely go for a 100 buy in bankroll.
Last note : If you are multitabling , make sure you have good control over your emotions. This is critical when you multitable .
For example , lets say you play 8 games at once , and 4 out of those 8 games you get sucked out / cold decked and you are knocked out quite early in all 4 of those. You must be able to handle that well , if not you might start tilting and lose the other 4 when you could have at least reduced your losses in those last 4 had you have handled yourself well.
I'm not saying this kind of situation will always happen , but it will happen from time to time for sure , and you must handle yourself accordingly or it will dwindle your bankroll in a hurry. |
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cubbies760
Drawing Dead
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 11115
Location: Depressed
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The $1 and $2 SNGs have the exact same amount of rake. That's like getting 1/2 of the prize pool avaliable without paying any rake on it.
Play the $2.25 SNGs instead of the $1.25 ones, almost always.
| Azonicbh wrote: |
| but I would go as far as to say that you should avoid the 2+0.35 as well , as the rake is still quite high on these. |
There aren't any $2 + $0.35 SNGs. |
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Azonicbh
Pair
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I know , just misstyped it |
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KDavidC87
High Card
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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You have all the reason, the rake is too high  , I'm a little newbie on those things, but mathematically you have proved to me a way to use my bankroll profitably. I will better play cash games until I've build a bankroll to start playing the 6+0.5 sng  . |
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anfieldassassin
High Card
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 10
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I started playing a few $2 SNG's and a bit underrolled I tried out the $6 games. In my opinion the standard is no different and now I am rolled to play that level, hoping to win some more to move up to the $11 level. It is daunting but if you know your game you can easily crack that level.
Cheers |
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DforDissent
Royal Flush
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 669
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Azonicbh wrote: |
Have to agree with uconn on this , AVOID 1+0.25 at all cost. I might be a bit more risk taker than uconn on this , but I would go as far as to say that you should avoid the 2+0.25 as well , as the rake is still quite high on these. I strongly suggest that you go to the 6+0.50 games even if that means not practicing good bankroll management to start off with.
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I understand the math behind you guys suggesting to avoid the $1 buyin level.
But remember, the $6, $5, even $2 level is "out of reach" for someone with only $30 or $20 in their BR.
For someone with less than $50 or $60 in their BR, I'd say the 9handed $1+0.25 are a good way to confirm they are actually good at the 9handed SnG in general... just make sure you don't play anything past the flop that you aren't willing to show down, since their is a LOT of bluff-shoving on the turn or river at these super-low buyins. But that kind of "lottery" is EASILY made up by the horrible bubble and ITM play. Seriously, once it is 5handed or 4handed it is painfully easy to triple up your average stack, just min-raise the guys who you have identified as tight-weak (and fold if they fight back, of course)... then with your monster stack you can take advantage of the middle-stacks (especially if 2 are similarly-sized) until the bubble finally pops... and wow the tight-weaks are back to being tight, hoping to luck into 2nd place and you can build your stack even more for an easy headsup win... just be patient, you'll take down enough of these to build your BR to the point where playing the $2 level is well within your BR (which may not be the case with only $50 or $60, according to some SnG experts, who suggests 50 buyins, to allow for the variance, i.e. sometimes you don't cash for 6 in a row, even "Jennifear" on PocketFives has had plenty of bad luck streaks like that, or worse.)
50buyins is "safe" and means that you play the $1 until you have like $100 or so in your BR (then you would move on to the $2 level).
If you are willing to have only 30buyins, then the $2 can be played at $60 ... as long as you are willing to drop back down to the $1 if you go on a bad run and are reduced to like $30 or even just $40. But if you do end up dropping down, but don't know how to survive the early and middle stages at the $1 level because you "skipped" it, then you might end up never getting your BR back up to the point where you are again properly rolled for $2. imo. |
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telebob
Royal Flush
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 616
Location: crunchin srsly
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| ...6... |
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Flying_Kiwi
Bird of Mystery
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 8241
Location: Eating an apple on the golf course in the sunshine
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
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cardplayer52
Four of a Kind
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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$0.25 / $1.25 = 20% rake
$0.25 / $2.25 = 11% rake
$0.50 / $6.50 = 7.7% rake
there is a few different views on how many buyin are needed. the one i like best is based on your ROI% which you won't really know until you got 1k games in. but at 5% ROI you would need 100 buyins. 10% 60 buyins and 15% 25 buyins. the point being the lower your ROI the more variance is a factor. another BR policy i've heard and you night try is 25buyins for the next level. but you got to be willing to drop down if you go below 20 buyins. this way if you got $31.25 you can try the $1.25s and if you get it up to %56.25 you can move upto the $2.25s. but if you drop to $25 you got to stop. Either go back to ring games or drop to the 25cent dailt double satellites to build T$. |
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Basscadet7
High Card
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| ive found that the 1$ sitngo's are a total waste of time because of the rake, yesterday i tried the 2$ sitngos with only a 10$ bankroll and now my bankroll is at around 30-40 bux... it could be a bit of luck that its rolling my way in the short term but the play is very easy to beat i find and i think can be beatable at around 10-15 buy ins... |
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KDavidC87
High Card
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| cardplayer52 wrote: |
$0.25 / $1.25 = 20% rake
$0.25 / $2.25 = 11% rake
$0.50 / $6.50 = 7.7% rake
there is a few different views on how many buyin are needed. the one i like best is based on your ROI% which you won't really know until you got 1k games in. but at 5% ROI you would need 100 buyins. 10% 60 buyins and 15% 25 buyins. the point being the lower your ROI the more variance is a factor. another BR policy i've heard and you night try is 25buyins for the next level. but you got to be willing to drop down if you go below 20 buyins. this way if you got $31.25 you can try the $1.25s and if you get it up to %56.25 you can move upto the $2.25s. but if you drop to $25 you got to stop. Either go back to ring games or drop to the 25cent dailt double satellites to build T$. |
You are using something like the Kelly Criterion for BRM, this is very interesting and not well known. Recently I've seen that the rake on the $1 level has been reduced a bit, now is $0.20 instead of the $0.25, maybe this post has helped a bit to reduce the rake at this level.
So the the rake is now:
$0.2/$1.2=16,66% |
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