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nekotec
I Hate Min-Raises
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 1315
Location: Mexico
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 Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| drewg22 wrote: |
I am complaining about it for a few reasons:
1) It is an excellent source to track my own stats and has great funtionality to sort by various games and buy ins.
2) OPR should not be singled out and Sharkscope and other sites allowed to give the same/similar data EXCEPT players have to pay for it. Let's call a spade, a spade, FTP doesn't give one lick about the supposed "unfair advantage". That is a smokescreen for some other reason.
Finally, I think it is pretty foolish to base my play against someone on OPR stats and 15 hands. |
1) agree with you
2) yes and thats prob the reason why full tilt will start banning the rest of this data sites like sharkscope. OPR is just the first site imo
it may be dumb but it has worked so far (at least in the low stakes) |
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Zarken_Ventreth
Full House
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 160
Location: High in the Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheFlashOne wrote: |
I dont care if they shut it down - but have something comparable within FT that can track your OWN progress...
99% of people angry about this is because it means they cant track THEIR OWN stats (ie nothing to do with using data to make reads etc)
This is the issue here. |
This was the main point I was trying to make when starting this thread and the poll that was shut down in another section. Tracking my own improvement (things as simple as getting that 5th star and working towards getting the 6th and seeing my ITM finishes finally top 22%) were things that I always looked forward to after a day's play. Those things were the only thing I used OPR for.
The "pay for use," heads up, programs give a CLEAR advantage to the players who are willing to fork over the money. I am a relatively new online player (about 8 weeks now) and my OPR stats served as an additional motivating factor, to me as a low stakes player, in pushing me to improve the stats listed on that site.
Thank to all who have responded and a special thanks to all who have written to Full Tilt Support about this matter.
Best of luck to you all at the tables.
Zark |
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TheFlashOne
Banned
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 341
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:22 am Post subject: |
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The more I think about this the more  I get!! |
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KowboyCa
High Card
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| I have emailed my response to this silly decision to stop OPR results being visible. I urge you to all email Full Tilt, we need as much force to bring OPR back to FT. |
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Zarken_Ventreth
Full House
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 160
Location: High in the Mountains
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| KowboyCa wrote: |
| I have emailed my response to this silly decision to stop OPR results being visible. I urge you to all email Full Tilt, we need as much force to bring OPR back to FT. |
That will definately help! In additiont to posting a message on this thread, to help it grow in terms of responses, a large number of e-mails will not go un-noticed by FTP... Strongly worded e-mails that are related to one's feelings about this matter (leave out any cussing or threats) can be effective in forcing a reversal of the decision. Simply write an e-mail that discusses the ridiculousness of the decision! Those e-mails are more likely to be effective and will garner much more attention. Perhaps they may lead to a reversal of the decision.
Poker Stars once tried the same thing at OPR. They reversed their decision within about 1 week and OPR was, once again, allowed access to Poker Stars' tournament data. It is my belief, that the reversal was due to heavy pressure placed on Poker Stars by users of OPR who played at that site. Please send your thoughts to the administration of Full Tult Poker! Thanks for all your help in ths matter everyone!!!
I would suggest sending your e-mails to support@FullTiltPoker.com as well as sending a copy to feedback@FullTiltPoker.com
Best of luck to you all at the tables.
Zark |
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francois8
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 1930
Location: Conshohocken, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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1. Its free.
2. Its open to anyone.
3. Anything that is honest, accurate and fair aids in transparency.
I think that transparency lengs support to legitimacy, I think banning things like OPR will just make it harder to see who won what tournies and the conspiracy theorists / rigged people will say I told you so.
I don't like it. |
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Frankjones
Three of a Kind
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:17 am Post subject: Yes, Full Tilt is making a mistake, but... |
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so is OPR. Full Tilt cannot stop OPR from publishing statistics. OPR has chosen to voluntarily comply with Full Tilt's request. Why?
OPR is doing nothing wrong. OPR should tell Full Tilt, "Hey ,listen, we don't think you have a legitimate point, so we ar goign to keep doing what we've been doing."
Here is what their site says --
Full Tilt Poker on OPR
June 2009
Full Tilt Poker (FTP) has demanded us to remove all FTP tournaments and player statistics from Official Poker Rankings (OPR) because they suddenly decided that OPR "gives players an unfair advantage" and works "very similar to how a shared hand history database works".
We don't believe OPR gives players an unfair advantage. OPR is a free site available to all players and in our opinion any player should be allowed to use OPR to follow their progress, for stacking, collusion detection, community discussions, competitions and to see how they are doing in comparison to other poker players.
All the data we collect is publicly viewable at the end of each tournament in the tournament lobby. We do not collect hand histories nor do we provide access to any hand history information. OPR has nothing to do with a shared hand history database.
We have proposed Full Tilt Poker different solutions to keep FTP tournaments on OPR and we hope they will reverse their decision and help us clear this misunderstanding soon. But for now we have decided to follow their demands to remove all FTP tournaments on OPR.
Your opinion matters.
We strongly encourage you to forward your opinion about this to support@fulltiltpoker.com |
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Frankjones
Three of a Kind
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Of course, Full Tilt's stance is utterly ridiculous. OPR publishes the results of tournament play. Anyone can view the results, and anyone can choose to have his or her results hidden. So, I do not see the problem.
Also, think about how absurd this is. Imagine if MLB or the NFL or the Professional Tennis governing body told newspapers to stop publishing results and standings. That would be absurd right? Well, why is this any different?
This is the last thing we need happening when poker is already under attack from the overzealous and foolish US politicians. Full Tilt should be on the same side as its players and advocates in that ongoing legal battle to recognize poker as a legitimate game of skill.
Yet, this decision by full tilt acts against those interests by attempting to hide information that is publicly available for every other legitimate game of skill. |
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drewg22
Full House
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Yes, Full Tilt is making a mistake, but... |
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| Frankjones wrote: |
so is OPR. Full Tilt cannot stop OPR from publishing statistics. OPR has chosen to voluntarily comply with Full Tilt's request. Why?
OPR is doing nothing wrong. OPR should tell Full Tilt, "Hey ,listen, we don't think you have a legitimate point, so we ar goign to keep doing what we've been doing."
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You may be right but if OPR did not compy then they could face a lawsuit and you can bet that FTP has a much larger litigation budget than OPR. |
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Sand Wedge_100
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 1545
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Yes, Full Tilt is making a mistake, but... |
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| Frankjones wrote: |
OPR should tell Full Tilt, "Hey ,listen, we don't think you have a legitimate point, so we ar goign to keep doing what we've been doing."
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Where do you think OPR gets this information?? DUH |
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Kam1972
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2181
Location: Lady Luck's house asking nicely for favouritism.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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This is the mail I got in response from FT support after I e-mailed them about the ban. So doesn't look like its a ban for good, but I guess we shall see. Though I'd like to know exactly what part of OPR they think is giving the advantage currently.
Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.
We are currently working with all of our affiliates to ensure their business practices are consistent with our goal of providing the best online poker experience. In particular, we are ensuring they adhere to our very high standards of game integrity and do not support the use of prohibited or restricted software.
Official Poker Rankings provides a great service to its customers, and as poker players ourselves, we fully appreciate the value of the information they provide. Unfortunately, some of the information currently available may allow players to obtain an unfair advantage at the tables.
We are currently in communication with Official Poker Rankings to establish a set of guidelines that is in the mutual interest of all parties, including our valued players. We hope to have the matter resolved as soon as possible and appreciate your patience in the meantime.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us. We're always here to help.
Regards,
Chris
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support |
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drewg22
Full House
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kam1972 wrote: |
This is the mail I got in response from FT support after I e-mailed them about the ban. So doesn't look like its a ban for good, but I guess we shall see. Though I'd like to know exactly what part of OPR they think is giving the advantage currently.
In particular, we are ensuring they adhere to our very high standards of game integrity and do not support the use of prohibited or restricted software.
Official Poker Rankings provides a great service to its customers, and as poker players ourselves, we fully appreciate the value of the information they provide. Unfortunately, some of the information currently available may allow players to obtain an unfair advantage at the tables.
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I got the same canned response but they refused to give me an answer when I pushed them on the bolded points above stating that the info OPR provided was still widley available but it simply had to be paid for now. |
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SmellsLikeDonk
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 598
Location: Shoving where it's +EV
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Yes, Full Tilt is making a mistake, but... |
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| drewg22 wrote: |
| You may be right but if OPR did not compy then they could face a lawsuit and you can bet that FTP has a much larger litigation budget than OPR. |
Highly doubtful FT would bring a suit against a business partner that makes FT money. There's no law being broken. What FT probably did was threaten to end the affiliate contract. |
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drewg22
Full House
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Yes, Full Tilt is making a mistake, but... |
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| SmellsLikeDonk wrote: |
| drewg22 wrote: |
| You may be right but if OPR did not compy then they could face a lawsuit and you can bet that FTP has a much larger litigation budget than OPR. |
Highly doubtful FT would bring a suit against a business partner that makes FT money. There's no law being broken. What FT probably did was threaten to end the affiliate contract. |
Maybe not but it is very similar to the suit MLB players union brought against a fantasy game that was using players stats without paying for them.
http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2006/08/10/judge-rules-against-mlb-says-fantasy-sports-data-is-public-domain
I think OPR could win but as you say is it worth losing their affiliate agreement over or wasting the legal fees to do so.
Bottom line for me is if FTP does not let them show the results, I will try out Pokerstars and OPR will pick up a bonus because I will sign up through them. |
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KowboyCa
High Card
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem I have is that the information shared is OUR information about OUR statistics... so shouldn't it therefore be OUR choice if we want this information to be available for viewing... and even so, you can ask OPR to hide the info... but as many have said, there is always something else behind this. |
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