Online Poker Forum - Coin flips

fool57 · Pair Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 25

I generally play in cash games that are not deep stacked, with the average stack being around 100 big blinds. It seems to be common practice for people to try to get all in with any of the premium hands (AA, KK, QQ, AK) and sometimes down as low as 88 and AJ. This generally ends up to be a breath-holding, heart-thumping coin-flip situation, give or take a few percentage points.

I'm wondering why people are so eager to get into this situation. I've been doing it myself lately, mostly because of the opportunity for a big win. But it sure gets depressing if you lose two or three or more of these in a row, especially if its a river loss, which it often is.

How do you guys deal with this?

nolan6 · Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:

I personally try to avoid flips and see a flop with hands like AK or a PP (not KK/AA) because at the level i currently play i can beat the game by waitng for better spots to get the money in.

i find when i lose one flip i will keep flipping untill back even which doesnt normally happen, its only when i calm down do i get my money back. so see a flop and play from there, you are sacrificing a big win from preflop shoving (that you could still get anyway on the right board) for a series of smaller pots, and when your cards dont hit the flop, if your not all in, you haventlost as much.

if i wanted a flip id play roullette

chakop · Pair Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Posts: 50

100BBs is not short-stacked, and if everyone is playing that deep you should, in general, avoid coin flips in cash games. Pre-flop action should (again, generally) constitute a small part of the 100BBs in the stacks--instead, you should be looking to make bets on the flop (and later streets) based on your reads of your opponents' holdings.

So: don't be tempted to always get your stack in pre-flop if you have a medium pocket pair or a hand like AJ/A10/KQ; if you find that you raise with these hands (to, say, 3BBs) but are always being met with a massive shove, then it's ok to fold--you'll show up with QQ or better enough times to stack these overzealous players.

cese · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:05 am Post subject:

100bb is still pretty deep to get it all in pre. if they got 100bbs in with 88 and aj id just wait for qq kk and aa and $$$$

Penoyer79 · Two Pair Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 72

i try to avoid coinflips myself....especially with deep stacks.

the only times i go for coinflip situations is
1. i am shortstacked in a tournament looking to double up.

2. i am big stacked against a shortstacked opponent and his stack cant hurt me

3. i will also go for coin flips frequently against superior skilled opponents. if i feel i am getting out played too much... i will look for coin flip situations whenever possible - in an attempt to neutralize his skill.

Moshiach · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:57 am Post subject:

folding QQ+, AK preflop is burning money for the most part

vectorspace · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:23 am Post subject:

You don't see the full stacks of 100 BB's or even the 50 BB stacks doing this. It just isn't necessary. Most of the time, if these players 4 or 5 bet to get all in with hands like JJ or AK they're just putting themselves in a negative freeroll situation.

That being said, the short stackers who buy in for 20 BB's are all too willing to get it all in with AJ+ or 88+. Some have looser ranges, some tighter so pay attention to what they show down. Try not to play small pairs and suited connectors against them. Also, pick on their blinds more with small opening raises as they generally don't like to play flops.

And cash games are all about taking any advantage you can find. If you're a 55/45 favorite, you want to pump it up every time. Whereas in a tourney, you might not get as committed to your hand.

The best way to deal with the losses is to not play at a level that's higher than you are willing to lose. For example, if you have $1000 to play with, then a $25 loss probably won't hit you too hard. Therefore, the highest I would play would be in a $.10/$.25 game.

babiiverson8 · Two Pair Joined: 12 May 2008 Posts: 56

I think it's just people that want to get rich quick and don't want to grind it out.

Pman9000 · High Card Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 4

i personally would only go all in if someone raised infront of me with KK or AA

Rustinpeaces · Two Pair Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Indiana

I usually go on tilt after losing a coin flip.

conanav · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

QQ v. AK preflop is a little extreme when you both have 100BB. Still you should never fold either. Either you think you are willing to stack off(especially with AK) because you are ahead of his 3bet range or just call preflop and evaluate the flop IMO.

As far as the coin flips, there are some situations when a push with a small pocket pair is the best play. For example you raise on the BTN with 77 to 1.75 in a 50NL game and some ridiculous short stacker with like $8 just goes in, his range is so wide that with your bet7 you are getting more than the correct odds to just call. Not to mention you are ahead of any 2 overcards by like 5-7% and sometimes more

AI_Iceman · High Card Joined: 29 Aug 2009 Posts: 2

I only go allin with AA preflop against guys who have full buyins and it serves me well. Against short stackers i will defo loosen up and be more willing to gamble getting it all in pre as the majority are grade A morons. I only get it in though when i think the odds are in my favour and when i think my opp will push with a wide range. Flipping is a mugs game. obv you will see other donks willing to gamble also and this will even out with them but your going to run into a decent player eventually who pushes with the nutz and stacks you everytime. Also dont push and go flushing on the flop as this is also unprofitable play. Losing flips and chasing flushes seem to go hand in hand and before you know it youv donked off 4+ buyins and the tilt arrives. When i miss and my opponents hit i get flush - straighted.

conanav · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:43 am Post subject:

Crank102 · Straight Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 102

I personally see coin flips only as coin flips when there are 5 people or less. When there a 6-9 player table, you can not expect that all your outs are waiting to flop on the flop, turn on the turn, or river your river. Thus coin flips are more useful when there are more cards held by the deck then the players.

tiltslowplayer · Four of a Kind Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 254

I only make a coinflip bet when I control the coin.

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