Online Poker Forum - Can I call this river?

keegs22 · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: Can I call this river?

As played can I call his river bet / can he raise with just trips there, since that's all we beat there?

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Converter Tool from

UTG ($13.71)
MP ($89.19)
Button ($25.08)
Hero (SB) ($141.94)
BB ($26.81)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, J

, K

, 9

1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold, MP calls $1, Button calls $1

Flop: ($4) A

, J

, A

(3 players)
Hero bets $4, MP calls $4, 1 fold

Turn: ($12) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $12, MP calls $12

River: ($36) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $7.75, MP raises to $59.25, Hero folds

Total pot: $51.50 | Rake: $2.57

Results:
MP didn't show
Outcome: MP won $48.93

Strasse · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 am Post subject:

Well he could be raising with a low. I think you played the hand pretty awful. You should never be raising this hand preflop with limpers ahead of you. Your hand is a drawing hand, why inflate the pot when you are still drawing? If you had done that, the pot would have been much more managable. I don't mind the flop bet or the turn bet, but I'd definately check the river. Prevent betting here doesn't do you much good. He is going to raise you with anything that beats you, as well as hands like trip aces with a decent low. However, if you check, you are still in a bad spot b/c I suspect he'd prob pot you. Like I said, keep the pot smaller at the beginning of the hand, and your situation would be a lot easier.

keegs22 · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject:

Strasse · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject:

Oh, well my advice really related to PLO8. I don't play PLO, sorry.

colduex · Pair Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 39 Location: my bum

you had a full house jacks and aces

colduex · Pair Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 39 Location: my bum

so that would be a yes

bottlecapthief · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject:

I'd say you made the correct play. I hate the river sizing though as you bet less than your turn bet. This to me screams weakness, and I would raise in his position often. I will often size my bet this way to induce a bluff raise, but I will only do it with the nuts/2nd nuts unless I had a good read on the villain. I think I would bet about $19 on the end. Unless the villain flopped AJxx, I can't see him raising too often with A7xx(although the more I think about it, after a pot flop and pot turn bet, it may seem weak to bet 1/2 pot as well) on the river and you get to showdown the hand for your price.

Like I said, I think you made the correct play because there will definately be better times to get your money in.

folcl em · Pair Joined: 27 Jan 2009 Posts: 41

The more I replay the hand the more I think MP would raise with AJxx pre flop. I dont think he has AJxx (the case J) but he definetly has Axxx and position on you. It was cheap enough for him to call the $4 flop and $12 turn bet because both of you had deep stacks. MP's call on the turn tells me he made a boat with A2xx or called with trips with position on you to see what develops on the river. I think the river bet was a sign of weakness. If he was scared of you having the case A with a J I dont think he's not afraid anymore. Wheather he had trips, A2xx or A7xx he also can now represent he has AJxx. He took this opportunity to make a big re raise bluff that is if he doesnt already have the best hand with A2xx or A7xx (which is likely because only limp calling preflop and check calling the turn). I also think a half pot $19 river bet is a sign of weakness and MP wouldve made the same play. A $30 to pot bet would be the right amount and if he calls with A2xx or A7xx you just have to give him credit for a donk call (I mean good call). If he reraises all in then you have to decide if he was slow playing AJxx (cold deck) or is making a brave bluff. Wouldnt he protect his AJxx by reraising your flop and turn bets scared that a Q or K might beat him (thinking you have the case A with a K or Q or both). Unless he limped called preflop with AAxx, AKQJ, AKJx, or AQJx these are the only hands he couldve played this hand the way he played it.

dodge these · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:00 am Post subject:

I think you guys gibe to much credit here to villain. While I woudl say fold without any reads cause you can def find another even better spot if he bets here without having you beat, I think at this level he could well have just hit 7's full. Trust me I have seen that play many times with some1 having a hand like KQ77ds, limp call preflop, then call with the gutter not beliving u have quad acesd, then they pick up fd as well on turn, and finally hit boat on river and reraise. It's extremy donkish, but I see something like this at least once a session playing 50plo. Hell I see them hit the running flush in spots like this with a paired flop and then they make thin value bets otr. As far as not slowplaying AJxx here, why would you not when you got a preflop agressor firing every street when you have the nuts. While I think I might rerassie turn, you should not play scared of AQKx, which is the only other hand that has any equity in the pot. That said I think most often you are up against A7xx hand that was probably a A high fd + wrap preflop, and figured he might have the best of it or at least 9 out deep staked against any otehr hand except AJxx.

HuJwang · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:58 am Post subject:

im not much of a PLO player but my default here would be $22 otr, and fold to a raise. i hate the tiny bet. as played i think it's a fold... i cant imagine anyone raising so huge as a bluff or for value with a worse hand.

as for preflop.. i'd like raising this hand if you were on the button, but OOP i'd just complete it.

keegs22 · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the advice. I really couldn't have played that much worse looking back on it. Raising oop is bad, with several limpers even worse. I really wish I had position in this hand, would've been a lot easier.

Also, I forgot to mention that villain is standard TAG. He isn't calling two streets without Axxx. Whether or not he filled up or just shoved in response to my retarded weak bet I'm not sure. Although I'd say 90% of the time he has A2xx or A7xx here.

dodge these · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject:

drtre1987 · Forum Farmacist Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2933

i hate the bet sizing on the river. it induces so many bluffs, which is a really bad thing when our plan is to b/f.

fizzx · High Card Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 4

50/50

tight aggresive=fold
loose donk=call

...or something like that

thedoctorZ · High Card Joined: 11 May 2009 Posts: 3

It completely depends on the player(who you are playing) wether or not you call this one. Snap folding is definately not the right play. In my view this is actually a fairly tight spot. For example, I short stack 2-4 PLO for the most part. But I do play as low as .25/.50 on occasion, usually after a big win on 2/4 just to unwind a little after a mentally draning session. Point is= at any .25/.50 table you might be playing a strong 2/4 player just taking a break, on down to a donkey .05/.10 player who is on a heater taking a shot at what for him is a high stakes table. If you have been playing with the guy for a while, and he has been rock solid then it is a pretty easy fold. Even if he is bluffing, or somehow thinking his naked ace is good, folding and waiting for a better place for your money is a good idea. It is funny though as the stakes rise the call is a better and better play, and against Durrrr or Hansen at the highest level, it is a snap call. the difference is it is a call for $100,000. lol

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