Online Poker Forum - AQo early in SNG - facing flat and shove

bleffo19

rather early in this sng. no real reads yet except that the SB must have been mucking around with a couple of marginal hands. the villain that flats me also has an abnormally wide range.

is this a snap-call fist-pump or should i wait for a better spot?

Full Tilt Poker, $5 + $0.50 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 20/40 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: 810
BTN: 1,605
SB: 1,230
BB: 1,665
UTG: 2,005
UTG+1: 1,510
UTG+2: 1,795
Hero (MP1): 1,440
MP2: 1,440

Pre-Flop: (60) Q

A

dealt to Hero (MP1)
UTG calls 40, 2 folds, Hero raises to 160, MP2 folds, CO calls 160, BTN folds, SB raises to 1,230 and is All-In, Hero ???

Ozzy52

bleffo19 · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:18 am Post subject:

thanks for the reply.

unless i've misinterpreted it, i've always read that the generally accpeted convention for raising PF with limpers is (3+n)xBB, where n is the number of limpers. with only 1 limper here i've jacked it up to 4BB. and you said raise it to 4-5BB's anyway.

i dont really understand your attitude to call/fold. in sng's i usually take a stand of raise or fold. i rarely limp and never open-limp. the only times i will limp are at lowish blind levels with low to medium pp's or medium-range suited connectors IP, and it's usually reads-based and im usually over-limping then. AQ likely rates to be the best hand out there at the moment. what i dont want is have a family pot with aq if i decide to limp behind, so im almost never doing this. im also never open-folding in that spot either because thats really quite nitty.

that said, when i get flatted behind me and the BB shoves for over 30BB's, i'm a little concerned. im really not sure how to read that. my gut was telling me that he had a hand that had value to it, but he didn't want to take it to a showdown. something in the vicinity of 88-JJ or A-10 - A-Q. i dont really think he would have been shoving a hand like AK or QQ+ at this stage, simply because you lose too much value by chasing everyone away. either way it's fairly spwey by him, no matter what he has. i wasn't too worried about the CO, as he had been 3-betting rather light, and when he flats me i know i have his range crushed.

i wont say what i did just yet because id like to hear some more more opinions on this.

thanks

nolan6 · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:42 am Post subject:

i dont mind your raise preflop but would fold to the shove, any PP or AK and your struggling, not many hands (aprt from AJ) that u crush and even against some hand like J10suited your at sizeable risk.

fat rugger · Royal Flush Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 789

NilesMonkey · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject:

Raise PF is fine, sized well.
Folding to the SB shove is the way to go.

junkbutton · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject:

IF I were to raise there, I would actually raise a little less. I generally keep my raises small anyway, and I don't see the need to invest too much in this lowest of the premium hands. After the other guy shoves, this is a way easy fold, and I'm happy to have saved myself a few chips by making the smaller raise. He could be making that wild move with something like A9, but who cares. I'll wait for a better spot, tyvm...

fat rugger · Royal Flush Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 789

Ozzy52 · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject:

Azonicbh · Pair Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 44

You did everything fine for the raise ... But if you get a shove or a reraise that is 3x or greater of your original raise behind you , YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FOLD early in the sit n go unless you have a total maniac , and even then its a tough call.

The is for various reasons.

- Even against a single reraise behind you , early in a sit n go AQ will usually be a big dog or a coin flip. Even if you call , lets say a standard 3x reraise , you really don't know which card you need to hit. If you are up againts ak , you need a queen to hit , if you're up againts QQ , KK you need an ace to hit.

- You'll usually see one of the following hands when you get reraised early in the sit n go : AA , Ak , KK , QQ or JJ ... Ocasionally againts loose opponents you'll see AJ , 1010 or lower .

So Basically what I'm saying is that early in the tournament , you really don't need to be putting that many chips with aq preflop. You're most likely a big underdog or a slight underdog if you are up against a pair. Which is about 55% to 45% for the pair.

bleffo19 · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:14 am Post subject:

thanks for the replies guys.

i pretty much agree with with what everyone's saying. after the shove i thought about it but gave it up. i knew there was no way i was calling with aqo this early. i was kind of happy when the CO snap-called to put himself at risk.

however, i got pretty pissed when i saw their hands. the SB had A-10o, and the CO had AJo....
was kind of annoyed but i realized that in the long run its the right move to make despite the short-term result.

Azonicbh · Pair Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 44

I know , sometimes it will be frustrating to see those hands but like I said , you'll most likely see much stronger hands early in the tournament. Especially if you move up in limit and Start playing 22$+ games , you'll see that players tend to be much better on average and won't commit their stacks early on in the tournament with such weak hands.

I don't know if you are familiar with the independent chip model (ICM) , but to make it short , you actually greatly benefit without having to play the hand when 2 opponents are all in. It increases your chances of making money in the sit n go by having one of your opponents get knocked out even if you remain to the same chip stack yourself. There's a whole math equation behind it , but let me simplify it:

Basically , say you are 9 in a turbo sit n go. The tournament starts in 30 seconds , you each have 1500 chips to start with. Assuming your skills are all equivalent (which is not usually the case) , you will have a 33% to make money in the sit n go.

Now , on the first hand , 2 guys go all-in , one gets knocked out. Now everyone has 1500 chips , and one has 3000 chips. Even if your chance of cashing is not exactly 3/8 , its greater than your original 33% chance ...

Now for those who know icm , I know I didn't do the exact icm calculation as well as EV$ , I just wanted to keep it simple.

Hope this helps you understand that it's usually not a good play to go with aq early in the tourney . You should also be careful when you have AK early in the tourney if someone is forcing you to go all in with it when there is not a big pot in the middle already.

ShayDrew3 · Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject:

Philbird1 · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:00 am Post subject:

I found after watching the sng lesson, playing fewwer hands early, has helped me place more often. That was a good lesson for me! I usually play early am sng's because I found there are more European players who tend to be a bit aggressive. (Not sterotyping....) but they are happy to try to chip up early and usually knock each other out while I sit back and wait for a good hand. Mid tourney, I tend to look a little more. I play fewer games pm because the Americans are just freaking maniacs! ( I'm American). Micro levels, sheesh!

Parkinho · High Card Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 11 Location: England

I would echo general opinion on this one - nothing wrong with the raise and I'm ditching the hand to the big action afterwards. A,Qo isn't a bad hand but against 2+ opponents it starts to lose value against the hand ranges that you would expect to encounter in your scenario.

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