Online Poker Forum - All-In + Caller w/ Snowmen - Can They Stand the Heat?

NilesMonkey · Last edited by NilesMonkey on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Early in on this one: blinds at 15/30. Table is slightly more aggressive than I'm used to, but no remarkable reads at this point. Seat 10 has been aggressive with pre-flop raises, but has not shown down a hand (raised pf, but folded to a raise after a three-diamond flop). My inital call is a set-mine call; I didn't expect to push out that many limpers with a raise.

I don't think I would be able to fold any flop here if I just call since I would be getting over 3-1 odds should I be forced to go all in, so I'm considering this a shove/fold situation (unless I'm wrong, in which case call me on it).

Based on the previous evidence of his ability to fold, I'm giving seat 10 credit for a hand here. Otherwise, he wouldn't have called.

Is it too early to jump in here with what will most likely be a coin flip situation? Should I shove and hope that the two of them are sharing outs? Or should I do something else entirely?

Note: I figured this one out while typing it up, but I'll still post it to see what people have to say on it.

Hero (seat 1, dealer): 1665
Seat 2 (SB): 1787
Seat 4 (BB): 988
Seat 5: 1450
Seat 7: 765
Seat 8: 5455
Seat 10: 2890

Hero: [8 Heart

8

]

Seat 5 folds
Seat 7 calls 30
Seat 8 calls 30
Seat 10 calls 30
Hero calls 30
Seat 2 calls 15
Seat 4 raises 958 to 988 (all-in)
Seat 7 folds
Seat 8 folds
Seat 10 calls 958
Hero ???

P.S. Apologies for the crappy by-hand conversion... I'm at work at the moment (midnight shift + holiday pay = $$$), and I don't have access to the actual HH. I had to print it out as I was rushing out the door. EDIT Missed Seat 10's initial PF call... good eye Ozzy Very Happy

Ozzy52 · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject:

Tricky one. I have history with 88, it has not been my friend.

I'm assuming that seat 10 just called before the all-in happened.

If this got to me on the button with a few limpers I think I would be raising here. 'bout 150. It's a great hand on the button.

As played... pfft... I'm torn.

I wanna shove cause I likely have the best hand right now but I'm gonna fold as I'm likely up against at least one good hand or several strong cards.
Posn 10s call, and not an isolation all-in is slightly suspicious too.
I'm not happy playing this hand in a multi way pot either.
It's early, no point going out on a flip this early when we are still healthy.

Calling is a posibility, but thats a bit spewwy I think.
If you call and miss the flop or over cards come you are then playing shortstack.
If you hit or the board comes low then you could clean up. And they do say to call raises with a good pair but I never know how high I should call in these situations.

So I would fold I think, but I wouldn't be happy about it and would be soooo tempted to shove.

Dunno if thats right but there ya go.

Ozzy52

cese · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject:

fold you are always behind. you thoguht the bigstack was tight so this is obviously a fold.the blinds are also too low to be calling a overshove like this with 88 you can def find much better spots. i am guessing they showed 44 and aq?

dcdoorknob · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject:

Fold, and I don't think its that close in $EV

NilesMonkey · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:00 am Post subject:

Ok, here's my take:

I'm not so sure I'm always behind here. The short stack could be going all in with a strong ace, and the big stack could be calling loose with a high suited connector-ish hand. But since I can't put them on these hands specifically (higher PP's are obviously in the range), I have to assume I'm flipping at best against both opponents.

The simple call didn't really raise any red flags for me here; I don't think that Seat 10 included me in his decision to call.

If this were later in the SnG, I'd definitely be raising this first time around, possibly even shoving depending on the blind levels. And I'd most likely be shoving here if the blinds were bigger as well. But with the blinds so small and my respectable stack, I think this is a fold.

Results:

Hero (seat 1, dealer): 1665
Seat 2 (SB): 1787
Seat 4 (BB): 988
Seat 5: 1450
Seat 7: 765
Seat 8: 5455
Seat 10: 2890

Hero: [8h8d]

Seat 5 folds
Seat 7 calls 30
Seat 8 calls 30
Seat 10 calls 30
Hero calls 30
Seat 2 calls 15
Seat 4 raises 958 to 988 (all-in)
Seat 7 folds
Seat 8 folds
Seat 10 calls 958
Hero folds
Seat 2: folds
Seat 10: shows [Kh As]
Seat 4: shows [Kc Ad]
*** FLOP *** [3s,Jc,Ts]
*** TURN *** [3d]
*** RIVER *** [6d]
***SHOW DOWN***
Seat 4: wins 1,048 with Pair of Threes
Seat 10: wins 1,048 with Pair of Threes

I wanted to put this one through the wringer because - and I promise this is not hindsight - I had the thought that they could be sharing an ace, which would make me better than a coinflip against both of them. I didn't think that they would be sharing both hole cards and I was actually a favorite to win.

I just wanted to make sure this was a good fold and not a timid fold. Very Happy

daniel9861 · High Card Joined: 02 May 2009 Posts: 8

With a 50 BB stack and on the first blind lvl this is a instafold. The risk is not worth the reward, even if you double or triple up theres still a decent chance you won't make it in the money later, and if you lose the pot your stack will be crippled, knocking you out of the tourny most of the time. So because of that my range here would be at least JJ+, preferably QQ+. Play for stacks tight early, loosen up as the blinds get higher.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Someone watches too much WPT.

cardfish2 · Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:20 am Post subject:

Super easy fold

aatkins · High Card Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 20

lol, this one is a no brainer. Fold. It's simply not worth it at this stage. You need to pick your spots, and this wasn't one of them. Not even close, I'm surprised you are so torn about this and needed to make a thread to justify making the right decision.

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