Online Poker Forum - Understanding Rakeback Calculations [FAQ]

bizarroquinn

I keep writing this is various posts, so I figured I'd post it here.

MGR is they amount of money Full Tilt makes off your account.

Any rakeback percentage is taken from this.

so if your MGR is $100. That means Full Tilt made $100 off your account.
If you have 27% rake back, you will get back 27% of your total MGR, which in this case is $27.

1] Using FTP points will deduct your MGR by $0.005 per point used.

2] Cash bonuses reduce your MGR by the face value of the bonus ($100 bonus = -$100 MGR)

3] Iron Man mid year, and Iron man year end bonuses have not effected Rakeback in the past, we assume this continues to be the case.

4] Using iron man medals to purchase Full Tilt points, will not effect MGR or rakeback, when you use those Full Tilt Points, however, your MGR will be effected. Using Iron Man Medals for Iron Man exclusive items will also effect your MGR and rakeback. The only thing that you can purchase with iron man medals that will not effect MGR and Rakeback is the $26 and $75 tokens. This is probably because they have a fee built in ($24+2 and $69+6) so full tilt is making money back when you use them.

Other things can effect your MGR and Rakeback negatively these are:

1.) Payment processing, using certain methods of depositing and withdrawal can negatively efffect your MGR (wire transfers, checks, moneygram, etc)

2.) Fraud, bouncing checks, or payments

3.) Playing a tournament where more money is paid out then is taken in. Example, if there's a $1000 prize pool in a tourney and 500 players each pay $1. There is a $500 overlay, the overlay is divided by the number of players in the tournament and each player gets an equal amount of negative MGR. In this case, 500 players and $500 overlay, means each player would get -$1.00 MGR.

A more complicated example:

Your MGR for the month is $1000. (This is the combination of Rake at cash tables and Juice from tourneys/SNGs)

You spend 25,000 FTP on a Sweet FTP Hockey jersey. This will cost you 25,000 X $0.005 in negative MGR, or -$125.00

You also cashed out a few time, and these fees were $50.00 so your MGR gets hit with -$50.00

And you played some freerolls, and your MGR too a -$25.00 hit.

Your MGR at the end is this:

$1000 MGR
-$125 Jersey
-$50 Payment processors
-$25 Tournament overlays/freerolls
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total adjusted MGR: $800

Any rakeback is than figured from that number
so if you have 27% rakeback, you'll get 27% of that $800 or $216.00

cubbies760 · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject:

I know that RB is affected by making deposits, but I find it hard to believe (and disturbing) that requesting a check for your own money would negatively affect one's RB.

Tiera Starr · Message Board Junkie Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 2161

I know all the above, however I do have some more specific questions that I do not know the answers to. Is there any chance you have this information?

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How about using FTPs to play satellites.

#1 Where there is a cash prizepool. (satellite to a cash buyin event)
#2 Where the prizepool is in FTPs. (satellite to a bigger FTP buyin event)

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Also, do freerolls with a FTP prizepool count against your MGR?

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And the final question I have is: what about the doubles tournaments (early double, daily double, big double).
a) Is the full fee counted towards your MGR, or only the half that doesn't contribute to the bonus pool.
b) Is your MGR affected by the amount of bonus paid for the entire event?
c) Is your MGR affected by the amount of bonus you personally win.

gonefshng · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject:

my question is: If a person acumulated 1500 ironman points in a month, what would that equate to in rakeback? I know my answer is $0, but if i were getting it

cubbies760 · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject:

Tiera Starr · Message Board Junkie Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 2161

HighKey · Royal Flush Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 977

HighKey · Royal Flush Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 977

bizarroquinn · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:52 am Post subject:

bizarroquinn · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:59 am Post subject:

@gonefshng

there's a few ways to estimate how much rakeback you'll get based on the FTP's you earn.

For every FTP earned from tourneys or SNG, you'll earn $1 in MGR, if you have the standard 27% rake back, you'll get back 27 cents.

Ring games are harder to estimate, but there is a way to estimate and always be under the actual amount.

Watch how many FTP's you earn from cash games and use this formula.

Take the FTPs and divide them by the maximum number of players that can sit at the tables you play. (9max, 6max, 8 Max (for stud/razz), or 2max for HU)

That is the minimum MGR you can have earned for your play. I say minimum because players are always leaving or sitting out. So, for example in a 9 max ring game, you will be getting 1/9'th the rake in MGR, but if a seat is open for a few hands you'll be getting 1/8 of the rake. It's impossible to watch that all the time, so if you always divide by the max allowed to sit at your table, you'll always be under the actual MGR you're earning.

Multiply that MGR by your rakeback percentage and that's you're rakeback.

bizarroquinn · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:09 am Post subject:

cardfish2 · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:34 am Post subject:

I got this a few months ago. Most of it mirrors what bizarro wrote, but there are a couple differences.

Player Rake - Rake generated by the player in ring games (This money is obviously a "+" into your total figure; this is what you are earning as you play)

Player Juice - Tournament fees player has paid (This money is also a "+" into your total figure. For example: If you enter a tournament that costs $10+$1, as an affiliate you get the $1 fee back into your account. You have earned a $3.00 credit)

Player Bonus - Bonus the player earned (This money is a "-" against your total figure. If you have a bonus clearing it gets deducted from the total rake because it is a "bonus". The thing that you must realize is that this is actually good for you, because if it was included in your rake back you'd only be getting 20% of that bonus. Because it is separate, you are earning 100% of the bonus. You earned $300)

Player Added - Any additional money added to a tournament that the player plays in. (This one is tricky so I want to explain each separately. There are Added Money tournaments, Guaranteed tournaments, and Freeroll/Promotional tournaments. Keep in mind this only applies if you play in any of these tournaments where the following conditions are true. I don't like this either but they aren't changing it anytime soon)

1. If you play in a tournament with Added money, the money that was added gets divided up amongst all of the players that earn rake back who are in the tournament.
I.e., If there are 1000 entrants and $500 added, and 200 of those entrants are affiliates then you would be charged $2.50 to your account. $500/200 affiliates = $2.50.
2. If you play in one of the Guaranteed tournaments that run daily, and the tournament in which you are playing doesn't meet the guarantee then the difference is divided up among the affiliates in the tournament.
There are 1000 entrants in a $7000 Guarantee tournament, and 200 players in the tournament are affiliates. If they fall short of the guarantee by $1000 then that $1000 gets divided up among the 200 affiliates. So you would be charged $5 against your rake earned.
3. They have Freeroll and Promotional tournaments. The Promotional tournaments are those that you qualify into like the "Iron Man" promotion. All of the money in the promotional tournaments gets divided up among the affiliates who earn rake back that are playing in the tournament.
You can "Opt-out" of these promotions. If you do not wish to participate in any of the promotional tournaments that you automatically qualify for, please E-mail support and let them know so that your account isn't charged. When they send you a reply please save it!

Player Used Points - Points used in the Full Tilt Store (This is money that is a "-" against your total figure. If you make a purchase from the Full Tilt Store using your "Full Tilt Points" (FTP) then the value of each point used gets deducted from your rake. Currently the value of a FTP in the store is .005 dollars to a point when making purchases)
You earn 1 FTP for every dollar raked in a pot (in which you are dealt in the hand). The maximum rake is $3 per hand, so you could potentially earn 3 FTPs per hand.
You earn 7 FTP's for every dollar you spend in Tournament Fees; I.e, a $10+$1 tournament will earn you 7 FTPs, plus you'd get that $1 back in your rake Smile

Player Fees - Payment processor fees that Full Tilt has incurred due to players deposits and withdrawals. (This is a good time to explain this since you made your initial deposit using a Credit Card (?). As you can see $24.15 was deducted from your rake because your CC charged Full Tilt a fee for your deposit.)

Fraud - This is calculated at the end of the month, and consists of any outstanding fees for which you are responsible. [I.e., If you had a Verified Neteller Account (which is when your Bank Account attached to it; I had this) there was a feature called "InstaCash" which allowed you to obtain "x" amount of money immediately strictly on the faith that you have it in your bank account. In other words, they don't make you wait the normal 1 to 2 days for the EFT (electronic funds transfer) to clear your bank. If for some reason your bank account cannot cover this amount that you obtained then this is considered "Fraud" from Full Tilt, because Neteller will charge FT fees on your behalf.

mgodd · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:10 am Post subject:

Does anyone know how much they take off your MGR for each Ironman medal used?

bizarroquinn · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject:

bizarroquinn · Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject:

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