Online Poker Forum - $75 buyin line check

tracysanders · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: $75 buyin line check

Villian had been opening quite a few pots, but hasn't really shown down anything to make me think he was too bad- he has a sharky by his name and 13k profits fwiw.

Full Tilt Poker $40,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t50 - 9 players -
The Official Hand History

UTG: t7754 M = 7.38
UTG+1: t7083 M = 6.75
UTG+2: t19898 M = 18.95
MP1: t15414 M = 14.68
MP2: t20245 M = 19.28
CO: t4920 M = 4.69
BTN: t21003 M = 20.00
SB: t10595 M = 10.09
Hero (BB): t14873 M = 14.16

Pre Flop: (t1050) Hero is BB with K Spade

A

2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t1000, 5 folds, Hero raises to t2889, UTG+2 calls t1889

Flop: (t6428) 5 Club

T

6

(2 players)
Hero bets t2800, UTG+2 calls t2800

Turn: (t12028) 7 Heart

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks

River: (t12028) A Diamond

(2 players)
Hero bets t9134 all in, UTG+2 calls t9134

tjb111 · forum BAP bumper Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 3783

im pretty sure there isnt anything NOT standard here

HuJwang · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:03 am Post subject:

i think if you cbet here it should be a little bigger. i definitely jam turn as played. with your small flop bet, i think his calling range is going to be wide enough to include a lot of hands that he's not planning on stacking off with

tracysanders · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:34 am Post subject:

yeah I meant to bet 3800 and hit 2800 by mistake on the flop

doyle11 · Full House Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 198

i probably shove preflop....ur 3 bet is too small but a bigger bets commits u to the pot neways so i think a shove is good here.
flop:And if u r in this situation on the flop i dnt mind the small continuation bet but i feel its a bit weak and might be taken advantage of. I think i might just check it here considerin how much of ur stack is left i wouldnt want to risk a good portion on a continuation bet that might not work.Next best move might be to push and hope(may be the best choice). Then of course third is the small continution bet.
Turn checkings fine of course u dnt have anythin but a good turn givin u a nut draw.
River: considerin wat hands hed call u wit(u get weaker hands to fold, only flushes or sets r gona call) id probably be happy check callin(reevaluate after the bet whether to call or fold) or go check check.

HuJwang · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:50 am Post subject:

i don't think a preflop shove is too horrible. you are just at that stack size where all of your options are pretty annoying.

MattVegasPwn · Message Board Junkie Joined: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 1039

-I don't like a preflop shove at all. Your going to chase out the bottom of his range that you'll get value from, and get called by anything that you dont want to get called by. I like your 3 bet size.
-Don't misclick flop c-bet =]
-Tbh I'm shovamenting that turn. But as played I'm c/c the river, I don't see him calling with worse ever, or folding better. Atleast if we check we add a small bluff range.
-If he did call your river shove with like QQ or K10 or something silly, this deffo belongs in the thinest value bet thread Wink

bigpairde · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:45 am Post subject:

pre: stacks are still a bit deep for 3bet shoving imo. don't think it would be that horrible, but i think the sizing of your 3bet is fine.
flop: i wouldn't like a check here at all (OOP in 3bet pot). obv don't misclick Wink

turn: i would be finding myself jamming and wondering if i was being a spewtard again. think your check is fine. did you check in order to check/fold unimproved on river?
river: i think i would like a c/c since we are so likely to be ahead of his betting range there but i am not that confident we are ahead of his calling range when we shove

tracysanders · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject:

francois8 · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:

I hadn't posted my thoughts since I watched this hand unfold and therefore know the result and can't get it out of my head... so I'm going to fire some more questions. I think I would have played the hand pf and OTF very similar to this, and no way I get away from river... I may have shoved turn, not sure.

tracysanders · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:

Fran- I think shoving flop screams AK and gets snapped every time sir

francois8 · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject:

bleffo19 · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject:

obv the flop cbet is a misclick, so there's no need to comment on that. the one thing that caught my attention is stacks and sizing.

even after misclicking flop cbet you have slightly less than a pot-sized shove OTR. if you had cbet 3.8k you would have less than a 1/2 pot shove left. this bugs me, coz villain will snap us off with almost all of his flop continuing range, getting awesome odds. stacks seem very awkward here. i don't know how to work around this, but nobody's explicitly brought this up yet.

marsupial311 · Royal Flush Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 738

Villian's line makes it weird to put him on suited connectors that hit on the turn. The shove is standard but what are we really ahead of? AJ-AQ probably wouldn't stick around after the flop then call a shove (or would it?) and JJ+ wouldn't want to play that passively with all the draws out there and a 3bet from the BB can easily include those kinds of hands.

Weird spot but I would take the same line. Of course, my thinking is far below the $75 buyin so it might be all wrong Smile

.

Riddim · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject:

If I know he's decent I probably just c/f flop unless I've been pretty active myself, because villain really shouldn't have too many (if any) hands in his range that he's folding to a flop c-bet otherwise. If you do bet I like your sizing, because I don't think I'm a fan of betting flop without shoving a fair amount of turns, so something bigger would put you in a weird spot where he's getting pretty good odds to call a shove when you want to jam the turn.

Even if villain is folding lots of flops so the c-bet is good on its own, I am definitely jamming this turn btw.

On the river I doubt that you're getting more money out of him very often no matter what you do, because your hand looks so much like either AK or something too weak to call a value bet. With that said, I prefer shoving because at least then he might call you with his bluff catchers (pretty much his entire range I'm guessing) instead of checking them back hoping to be good.

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