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bottlecapthief
Kleptomaniac
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 4890
Location: At the craps table where I have an edge
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dodge these wrote: |
| You all can say what you want but from all the comments I have heard from pros so far, including during the live FT broadcast, it was basically agreed upon that the only good play seen by either of these 2 was the AQ call that busted Ivey... which was still a suckout. |
Lol. What pros have you heard from? I guess you as well as them probably have access to all the footage of the final table, not just what ESPN editted for TV.
This is from Clayton Newman who is a far better player than probably everyone here, and most likely better than many of the pros you have gotten input from. He even made the top 70 in this very main event, and probably played against some of these very players. A poster on 2+2 asked anyone to justify the 22 shove against a solid player.
| Clayton wrote: |
LOL
You want justification, the onus is on you to prove that you shouldn't be jamming 40bb with a pair versus a 3bet bvb versus a euro who applies tons of aggression pre and post in credible spots both light and for value.
The reason you can't prove it is because it's impossible.
And I'm not a Cada nuthugger either, his AJo call was horrible aswell as his jam with 33 versus Schulman's JJ, the fact I'm hammering out is that anyone in Hellmuth's camp regarding Cada's play with 22 or Buchman's play with AQo is hilariously bad at very simple range-based calculations. |
Now to steal Clayton's term, I am obviously a Cada nuthugger, but to say that he made no good plays at the final table is just ridiculous given the amount of information that the public is given.
edit: And if the comments during the live FT broadcast are the ones from Phil Hellmuth Jr, then a really big lol. He is the player that was advocating always raising 5x for his pupil, a tip that even Maven thought was bad. Phil also had some gems saying that weak players put people on ranges because they can't put their players on specific hands. Clearly the truth. |
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JJsell
Full House
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think they both made questionable plays on the FT but Saout could have 3bet Cada on a number of occasions and cada may have thought he didnt have it that time which was wrong but you cant sit there all day and fold to every single 3bet. I think his shove earlier on with the 3's against Jeff Shulman was far worse as was still 5/6 handed i think and Shulman had been playin extremely tight. But it doesn't really matter as the poker gods were shining on him and he is not $8.5m richer.
P.S. Tracy i dont think the blinds were as high as that i thought they were still 300k/600k maybe 400/800k. I still think you would call the shove with AQ even if the blinds were 300/600 because phil did only have about 6mill left |
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lurgertor
Royal Flush
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 772
Location: Riskville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Six handed, a short stack shoves and you got AQ in the BB that's an instant call, and even against Ivey you should be expecting to be in a dominating position most of the time or a coinflip, sometimes it would be 60/40 if Ivey shoved KJ or something because he felt that he could get away with it (especially if Ivey shoved there from late position). |
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