| Author |
Message |
stlbirds13
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: on the wrong side of the coin
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: Pocket Pairs in Early Position |
 |
|
| I just wanted to get peoples thoughts on playing low to mid pocket pocket pairs from early position in the middle stages of MTT. For the sake of argument lets say 33-88 and position of UTG to UTG +2. Also lets say blind levels of 80-160 to 200-400. Standard table not super nit or supper aggressive a few players of each type. This is a situation where I see a potential leak in my game so I wanted to see how the people on here, in a general sense play these hands. As for buy in lets say mid stakes $26 guaranteed tournaments |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TinkyTyler
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 1960
Location: Toronto
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What are stack sizes? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stlbirds13
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: on the wrong side of the coin
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| average stack about 6,500, M somewhere between 15-30 lets say |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bleffo19
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 1514
Location: SYD, Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
33-66 i'm usually open folding. if the table's loose-passive i might limp for good set-mine odds. might raise once in a while to balance our range.
77-88 im usually raising. at these blind levels im probably 2.5x'ing it. may consider open folding if there are lots of reshove stacks behind us. once again may consider limping if table is loose-passive, but i prefer raising. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stlbirds13
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: on the wrong side of the coin
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yea see I believe that is a leak I have. I think I limp far too often in early position with these hands for the reason you stated if nobody opens then you have a chance to set mine. However, often times I'll limp even at a and someone will open to 3 times, and 2 will call behind then I feel like I am forced to fold because I'm almost always behind, and if I call i'm set mining without proper odds to do so at that point |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hghlndr6
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2858
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| stlbirds13 wrote: |
| yea see I believe that is a leak I have. I think I limp far too often in early position with these hands for the reason you stated if nobody opens then you have a chance to set mine. However, often times I'll limp even at a and someone will open to 3 times, and 2 will call behind then I feel like I am forced to fold because I'm almost always behind, and if I call i'm set mining without proper odds to do so at that point |
That (highlighted) is important. Generally, you want a couple of callers to a raise in front in order to continue and you don't often get that.
Disclaimer ... I open limp a lot (heresy, I know, but it works for me)
I think it's entirely table-related. At a new table, in EP, I'm folding most pp<88. If the table's been intact for a while, though, I'm thinking, "what do they think my action means?" Depending on the answer to that, maybe I'm folding mid pp, or maybe I'm raising low pp.
You're looking for an easy answer and it doesn't exist. It's always situational. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JDizzzle72
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 5117
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
you need to post hands, stats, reads to get real answers. All of this is extremely situational.
otherwise, my answer stands at: open standard raise if you want to play the hand. if you don't want to play the hand, fold. ezgame. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DannehBoi
Royal Flush
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Min-cash city
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
In micro stakes the tables are usually full of loose-passive players, so I can get away with an early position limp without someone else raising quite often.  Best thing is people tend to limp when you do, so when you hit your set it can pay off big time.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
francois8
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: getting bent over the bubble
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JDizzzle72 wrote: |
you need to post hands, stats, reads to get real answers. All of this is extremely situational.
otherwise, my answer stands at: open standard raise if you want to play the hand. if you don't want to play the hand, fold. ezgame. |
This ^^^^ If you're going to limp / fold often in EP, this is a huge leak. If you're going to open raise in EP with AK/AQ and open limp (ready to fold) with small-mid pairs, this is an even bigger leak.
As JD said, if you're going to play, raise. If your raise will commit you to the hand, then shove or fold. If raising / shoving is not particularly appealing, then make sure that your default is fold instead of limp.
| DannehBoi wrote: |
| In micro stakes the tables are usually full of loose-passive players, so I can get away with an early position limp without someone else raising quite often. Best thing is people tend to limp when you do, so when you hit your set it can pay off big time. |
A comment on this as well. FWIW, I think calling as first person to enter the pot with the intention of set-mining is hugely -EV. In order to "set-mine" we need the implied odds of getting paid off big when we hit. If we open limp, and 1 or 2 other(s) limp(s) behind, so its us and the blinds... chances of one of these paying us off is way lower than other situations. Set-mining works best when someone raises in front of us, so we either have position or ideally, we get to call from one of the blinds with a discount. Then if we flop our set, we can reasonably expect a CB a good percentage of the time, so we're almost gauranteed at least one bet even if he doesn't stack off.
The real benefit is that the raiser has signified with his opening raise that he has something, and may stack off with a hand such as an overpair or TPTK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
straight4life
Two Pair
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 68
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I never ever open limp from early position in any game. the books say you shouldn't play any hands from early position unless you are prepared to call a raise with them. But if you have a hand that has potential to call a raise, why wouldn't you raise it yourself? With open limping and calling a raise you actually give away that your have a small pair imo
I only play heads up so I don't face this spot too often, I raise any pair HU pre flop |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
