Online Poker Forum - Succeeding at HORSE (Long Thread)

skeeter1114 · Voice of Reason Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 3963

Having had some success so far this year at HORSE, I started thinking of what I was doing to have success in the game. I'm going to offer a few of my thoughts on why I have succeeded. You may completely dismiss them or think they make sense. Doesn't matter to me. Feel free to comment and debate a point if you disagree, but please do it respectfully.

1. Know what games you're good and bad at.

Seems simple enough, but I don't think it's always applied. We all have our favorite games in HORSE, and the games that we can't wait to get over, so we don't have to see it for another 40 minutes (or 10 hands if playing cash games). In my case, Stud Hi is probably my weakness. I tend to play this game a little more conservatively than the others. I figure that I'm not going to lose many chips in my weakest game, if I don't have to. I am quite confident in Hold'em, and will be much more aggressive there than I am in my weaker games. Being confident in your favorite games allows you to play better, and stepping back a little bit, when needed, will help prevent you from leaking chips in those games where you struggle.

2. Know what games tend to be the weakness of others.

Again, we all have our weakness is a particular game. But, I think there are some games that people, in general, are weaker at than others. Hold'em is probably not a weakness for many, thanks to TV and the multitude of hold'em games offered everywhere. Outside of that, I think you will find people with weaknesses in the other 4 games. We've all played with someone, who doesn't understand Razz is a low game. There are some who go only after the high or low hands in Stud8 and Omaha8. And, the younger generation has probably grown up on hold'em, and probably hasn't play as much stud hi. As you play, notice how the table is playing, and figure out what game is the most advantageous for you. In a recent HORSE tourney, 9 and 10 lows were quite the standard in razz, with people 3 betting with 9 lows, while an opponent had 4 to an 8-low on their board. Picking up on these things can help you not only pick up who the bad players are, but also should give you a chance to go improve on that game, to take advantage of all of the bad players.

3. Tournament Only: In Hi/Lo Games, Cap if you have the best low or high, and know your opponent(s) can't beat you.

Another subtle thing to take advantage of, is to get extra chips, when there is no way your hand can be beat, while the others are fighting over the other half of the pot. I'll use Stud8 as an example:

You: Hole cards 6-7 Board 3-2-A-9
Opponent #1: Board 8-3-3-K
Opponent #2: Board 9-7-Q-J (3 spades)

If you see something like this on 6th or 7th street, bet away. You have the best low, and can not lose the pot. If one opponent has a full house, and the other has a straight or flush, let them fight for the high half. You're still going to get half the pot, may as well add to your stack and weaken someone while you're at it. It's a little more tricky in Omaha8, as you may only win 1/4 of the pot and lose out.

4. Don't confuse your best game overall game, as being your best game in HORSE.

I've posted about this before. These may or may not be the same. For me, Limit Hold'em is the best game of mine. However, it is not the game I do best at in HORSE. I find Omaha8 and Razz to be my most profitable games. I think people chase more in these 2 games, while not having as much knowledge in these games, as they do in hold'em. Whatever the games are, figure out your most profitable game, in HORSE, and take advantage of it.

5. Watch the Limits and don't chase every hand.

Usually, you can not win a tournament in the early levels of HORSE, but you can lose it. With limits so low at the beginning, it's tempting to call the raise in the BB with 4-8 suited in LHE or chase an A-5 low, with an inside straight draw in Omaha8. By doing this, you will bleed chips in the long run, and will put yourself in a hole for the times when the limits start to be big.

Swings in HORSE (and probably most Limit games) have wild swings that can take you from chip leader to short stack in 2 hands, or boost you from lower-stack to top stack in the same time. Very rarely will someone lead wire-to-wire. Be ready for the wild swings, and don't get too high if you have a lot chips, or too down if you are low in chips. You will have a chance to come back.

6. Realize, this is all Limit!

This may be the only time anyone plays a limit game. If someone is strictly a Hold'em or Omaha player, all they play is NL or PL. They may struggle in making the transition to a limit-based game. Find these players, and take advantage of them. If this describes you, try playing some limit games to get used to it. Also, realize there are only 4 streets to bet in Omaha and Hold'em. For Razz, Stud, and Stud8, there is an additional street. Factor that into any play you may make. The extra street allows you to either make more money when you hit a hand, or lose money if you chase and miss.

If you have other thoughts about things that have worked for you in HORSE, post them here. HORSE is a fun game, and can help you improve your overall poker game, while giving a nice break from not only hold'em, but from NL and PL games.

Strasse · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject:

3. Should read "stud8 only", not "tournament only". The example you posted, you would want to do the exact same thing in a stud8 ring game. Conversely, like you stated, in omaha8, you can get quartered in either tournament or ring. If you have a good read on your opponents though and feel confident they are both going after the other half, you can still raise them with low only. If you have the nut high that can't be duplicated(such as a nut flush), you can raise regardless of what you think the other have.

CarlosCRG · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject:

I liked a lot your post, I just started playing HORSE cash games here at FT a few weeks ago in the lower limits.
And as you can see this is my first post and my English is not that good.

I think your post will help me a lot in the future and will be back posting how these ideas worked for me Very Happy

minimalistico · Two Pair Joined: 28 Jun 2009 Posts: 69

i too liked your post.. keep posting things like this

hojediade · High Card Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 8

Nice post. Smile

I'd like to know which BI you usually plays, BTW. Wink

I'm mostly playing 8 players SnGs ($2 to $5) and tend to play it the way you told us about.
One point that as not been covered yet is the fact that most of the players are Holdem players and will usually play much more hands in this variety than they should, mostly due to the fact that with RSE, they usually have to restrict their play, IMO. That's why i tend to be much tighter when Holdem is coming back. I'll probably throw away all hands above AKos, AQsuited and JJ, knowing some loose player will bet their medium pair as if it was a flush.
The second and third round of Holdem in Sngs are usually the time for many players collapse.

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject:

On point 1: while it can be good to acknowledge your weakest game, surely you're better off focussing on improving at your weakest game more so than the others, rather than just resigning to play it conservatively. Long-term this will be a leak. If you just step back and play it conservatively, you'll struggle to improve and will always be giving up value during that phase of the round. Whereas if you get involved you may lose chips in the short term but you'll give yourself a better shot improving your weakest game.

muktuk2 · Flush Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 132 Location: belgium

' In a recent HORSE tourney, 9 and 10 lows were quite the standard in razz, with people 3 betting with 9 lows, while an opponent had 4 to an 8-low on their board. '

show me the way!! I play mtt horse with buy-in 10+1 or 5+.50 but never really stumble in to that... Where do you find these easy games?

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