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LeSat6re
High Card
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: unsuited connectors below J-10 |
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Hi everyone, this question concerns mainly limit hold'em sit n gos.
4-5o, 5-6o, 6-7o... I have always dismissed these hands in both ring games and tournaments in an heartbeat unless I was playing heads-up. No problem there, I try to play a TA game and my range of hands is already wide enough.
But... this is all good when I play full 9-handed tables and the early stages of a sit n go, but what about the later stages when it goes down to 4 or 5 handed and the blinds are fairly high ?
I play mostly 5$ limit sit n gos these days. The level of play is far from stellar, nonetheless I see a lot of players (not just the donks) play them with a certain amount of success. So these are my questions :
1- Is short-handed play a good time to mix them in ?
2- Do you play them when you are short-stacked, or when your stack is healthy ?
3- Have I been missing the boat all this time ? Or is playing them still mostly EV- even in that situation ?
I have much more questions but I'll wait for your comments first.
Thank you for your time, cheers ! |
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Pil Sung
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 370
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: unsuited connectors below J-10 |
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| LeSat6re wrote: |
Hi everyone, this question concerns mainly limit hold'em sit n gos.
4-5o, 5-6o, 6-7o... I have always dismissed these hands in both ring games and tournaments in an heartbeat unless I was playing heads-up. No problem there, I try to play a TA game and my range of hands is already wide enough.
But... this is all good when I play full 9-handed tables and the early stages of a sit n go, but what about the later stages when it goes down to 4 or 5 handed and the blinds are fairly high ?
I play mostly 5$ limit sit n gos these days. The level of play is far from stellar, nonetheless I see a lot of players (not just the donks) play them with a certain amount of success. So these are my questions :
1- Is short-handed play a good time to mix them in ?
2- Do you play them when you are short-stacked, or when your stack is healthy ?
3- Have I been missing the boat all this time ? Or is playing them still mostly EV- even in that situation ?
I have much more questions but I'll wait for your comments first.
Thank you for your time, cheers ! |
When and how to play them depends on the table, position and stacks.
To answer your question....
1. Yes, you should play them short handed, but rarely vs a raise. One reason you should play these hands is because if you never play them, your opponent (assuming he's played with you some) will know that a 467 board has missed you.
2. Short stacked-- meh, only if you think that everyone will fold or if it is a family pot.
Normal or big stack -- absolutely! You can bully and advertise as well as win some big pots with "junk"
3. Probably. Whether it's +EV or -EV depends on a lot of factors, including your post flop play. If you tend to chase a lot post flop, it very well will be -EV. If you give up to easy post flop, it definitely is -EV. |
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chitz
High Card
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| In the late stages of a limit tournament when you are five handed, you should not play 67s unless you have reason to believe that your open-raise has a good chance of snapping the blinds. Otherwise the hand is not powerful enough and you are not going to get the implied odds needed to make up for all the times you will miss the flop with this hand. |
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DforDissent
Royal Flush
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 669
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| chitz wrote: |
| In the late stages of a limit tournament when you are five handed, you should not play 67s unless you have reason to believe that your open-raise has a good chance of snapping the blinds. Otherwise the hand is not powerful enough and you are not going to get the implied odds needed to make up for all the times you will miss the flop with this hand. |
Hand ranges in late stages of any sit-n-go is just like the ranges for shorthanded... you want to push hard IN POSITION with almost any two cards, but back off when opponents stick around or fight back... and out of position it's HIGH CARDS that'll be +EV, the low cards and "draw hands" are just unnecessary spew, especially in limit holdem where you know you'll be seeing the flop headsup or at most 3way (since the blinds are that much higher). You should even usually fold your BB to a raise, or your SB when unraised, since your position is horrible, you won't have odds to chase your occasional flopped draw, AND you will get a tighter image as a result of those folds thus your late position steals (+ flop cont.bet, of course) will likely work a LOT more often thus making up for what you lose in your tight blind play. |
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AllInDrawinDead
Poker Nerd
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: check/raising your mother
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DforDissent wrote: |
| chitz wrote: |
| In the late stages of a limit tournament when you are five handed, you should not play 67s unless you have reason to believe that your open-raise has a good chance of snapping the blinds. Otherwise the hand is not powerful enough and you are not going to get the implied odds needed to make up for all the times you will miss the flop with this hand. |
Hand ranges in late stages of any sit-n-go is just like the ranges for shorthanded... you want to push hard IN POSITION with almost any two cards, but back off when opponents stick around or fight back... and out of position it's HIGH CARDS that'll be +EV, the low cards and "draw hands" are just unnecessary spew, especially in limit holdem where you know you'll be seeing the flop headsup or at most 3way (since the blinds are that much higher). You should even usually fold your BB to a raise, or your SB when unraised, since your position is horrible, you won't have odds to chase your occasional flopped draw, AND you will get a tighter image as a result of those folds thus your late position steals (+ flop cont.bet, of course) will likely work a LOT more often thus making up for what you lose in your tight blind play. |
I agree but also want to add that when you do defend your blinds with big cards you should defend them with a 3-bet usually not a flat call. That will make opponents think twice about stealing your blind since they won't like being 3-bet with a steal hand. |
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LeSat6re
High Card
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your replies, they are very appreciated.
I've had some moderate success with these hands so far, and I've been trying to pick my spots carefully. For example, In SNGs I've been playing them mostly in the early stages when the blinds are still very low. That way I don't commit a lot of chips with 'em and if I don't flop something strong they're easy to let go.
I am still not very confortable playing them short-handed though. I might limp-in in late position, but I'm having a hard time making successful steals with them. Maybe it's just my luck, but here's a typical scenario :
6 handed, I open raise from the cutoff with 8-7o. Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, I call.
Flops come K-8-5 rainbow. BB checks, I cbet, BB calls.
Where am I at in this hand ? Since I will rarely flop better than middle pair with an hand like that, and the turn and river will most likely bring more overcards, I find it hard to fire another bullet in a spot like this.
If checked to, should I play it fast and bet the turn regardless of what come ?
If bet into, should I let go of these hands as soon as people fight back ?
This is of course oversimplified, but I would like to know how you guys handle that situation. I can't say I had more success one way or the other so far, which bring me again to thinking I have absolutely no clue what to do with these hands.
Cheers ! |
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