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TheBigDanish
Two Pair


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: I'm broke again - I'm gonna expose my soul. Reply with quote

So.. Here we are again.. I'm broke once more. I must say its probably my own fault, as I never deposited an amount high enough to use proper Bankroll management rules, but thats not the point.

Today has been so bad, I'm really thinking about dropping this game once and for all. Through my poker career I have lost close to 400$ (over 2 years). All have been deposited 50$ or so at the time. Because I always wait months between plays, I always end up going down a lot in the beginning. Then I up it almost to the 50$ and then bleed out. It usually takes between 2 weeks to 2 months.

I had my Aces crapped on a a set of 5's, where I'd say I put so much in preflop, the guy shouldn't have even called. Pocket Q, and Pocket K cracked by Pocket A's. I have had 2 flopped sets, cracked by full houses on the turn/river. In a Tournament I played today I have been deal crap hands for more then 100 hands in a row, and when I finally got something (the pocket Q), I got cracked out by Pocket A. All this happend today alone, and its not a rarity.

As said, I haven't really utilitized any Bankroll Management rules, as I usually have to little to follow even Chris's. I have read lots of books, and seen lets of videos about everything from strategies, to actual tournaments.

Anyway, I said I'd expose my soul, and I'm a guy of my word. I'm gonna tell you in detail how I play the game. I know this will come back to haunt be later, but I need to know if its me who stinks, or what the hell is wrong here.

Tournament Play: I usually play this very tight and very aggressive. Hands I play, I usually always open with a preflop raise. If I'm high stacked, with no real stack opposition, I like to lean a lot. In this position I'm usually never in trouble so I'll leave this out.

If I have below or average stack, I play tight, only play pockets and A 10+ (depending on position). In this situation I'm very aggressive with pockets, especially high pockets. I usually either go all in (usually with pockets between 5-J), if there is no big raises, or limp and hopes for a set. With any Pocket higher then that, I play very aggressive, preflop raises between 3-5 blinds. If I'm reraised, I usually go all in. If I'm called, and theres no over cards, I keep up the aggression. If there is an over card, theres a lot of things I can do, depending on the reads.

With AJ, AQ, AK, I usually preflop raise. If I'm reraised, depending on the amount, I usually call. If I totally miss the flop, with no high cards, I usually assume he didn't hit either, and go in for the killing. If he comes over me again, I'd probably flop, do to the fact that usually means a pocket.

Low stacked, I usually go all in with any decent hand. Not much to tell about this.


My Bluffs: I'd describle my bluffs as Gus Hansens lines in his Full Tilt commercial. "I'm about to tell you a story, it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. True or false? doesn't matter, its all about how I tell it". By this I mean, is, if I got to see the flop cheaply, and the flop comes 3c 5c 10d. Now my enemy bets 3 big blinds. If I put him on a pair of 10s, and I decide to try to bluff it, I'll represent a straight/flush. I'll call him, and if I hit something lets say 7c. He bets the same, but this time I reraise him 9 big blinds. He if calls, and the river comes 2d (or something else completely off), and he checks it, I'd go all in.

In my mind, this is a good representation of the flush. Ofc I usually like to close it off a lot earlier, and bluff something smaller, but you get the idea.


Ring Games: I usually keep it to blind steals and safe plays.


I could probably put 10 times more detail on this, but I really hope I don't have to.

Where am I leaking?
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 4004
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you not follow proper BRM when you can play $.01/.02 ring games?

FWIW, one big leak is BRM. You probably also have a lot to learn, and a lot of times it takes more than $400 to learn it. If you want to learn to play poker well it is going to take a lot of time and a lot of money. I'd recommend an investment in a poker training site to begin with.
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TheBigDanish
Two Pair


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, I believe I have it pretty well done. I don't see where I can improve my game. From my viewpoint, I just get killed by bad beats. I didn't write anything that you could comment on?. Poker Training Side... are you joking?
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 4004
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBigDanish wrote:
The thing is, I believe I have it pretty well done. I don't see where I can improve my game. From my viewpoint, I just get killed by bad beats.


Yeah, I know. The problem is, if you are getting killed by bad beats that means either (1) you are not playing enough volume to win in the long run, or (2) you are not a winning player -- if you can't win enough to still win when you have bad beats then you aren't a winning player.

Most people actually fall into both categories. Yes, even those people who think they are good at poker.

Honestly, I can't even comprehend thinking you can't improve your game. Everyone can improve their game, including the best players in the world (although this usually takes the form of studying specific opponents).

Quote:
I didn't write anything that you could comment on?. Poker Training Side... are you joking?


I don't play tournaments. Your ring game strategy is fairly meaningless, given that I have little idea what you mean when you say you try to steal blinds (are you just raising random hands on the button? Are you raising a lot from SB?), and even less idea what you mean by "safe plays."
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lurgertor
Royal Flush


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 751
Location: Riskville

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok for bluffs unless your against thinking players or tight players that kindof bluff usually wouldn't work because idiot players often call you down with top pair anyway. I know you're being tight and all, but most of the time they won't notice. Tight players are usually pretty easy to tell who they are, but thinking players are not as easy to tell though. Until you think you can tell who the smart players at the table probably are, it may be best to just stick to bluffing the tight players. Now against the stupid, players if you get a sense that they missed the flop, i.e. it is a three way limped pot with A 5 4 ranbow and you have the botton, if it goes check, check you can probably figure no one has an ace and a bet probably will take it down. If that doesn't work a continuation bet on the turn probably would.

In Ring Games, the money isn't usually made by stealing the blinds, but more so trapping your opponents and thereby winning big pots. My guess is you'd probably be playing the micro stakes and there while I do steal the blinds occasionally I make most of my money by stacking someone whose got top pair against my set. At those stakes I like to play decent drawing hands like suited connectors, small & medium pocket pairs and weak suited aces, if I have position. Of course I'm still going to raise big with my big pocket pairs and big hands, but the goal is to keep your opponents in the hand when you got them crushed.

I think your general play in tournaments is a decent strategy, I might play medium pocket pairs a little slower though and just raise once with them, often fold to a threebet with 88 or lower (depending on the opponent though of course), but if the flop is good then I'll often start betting hard because now he's only got to cards to complete his hand, but pre-flop he's got five and its often a coin flip.

Oh one more thing in tournament play, if the blinds you have position on seem like rather tight players themselves you could open up your range when you're in the CO or BT and maybe MP3. A raise even from EP might work because you're often going to have a big hand from there, but you run the risk of getting called by some idiot with A5 because he's got an ace, then you'd have to play the rest of the hand OOP. I hope this helps
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Boomshakaboom
Taking a Timeout


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 149
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yh bankroll management is key lool use to have a bankroll of 4000 and was bored one night so playdon 25/50 nl table with $1500.
First hand i have QQ raise , reraise allin he turns over KK. 1500 down.
second hand AK vs AQ a queen hits i lose another 1.5k

Now im on tilt so start entering $200 sngs and mtts within a week my 4k Bankroll is gone because of bad management and sheer greed Very Happy
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bigpairde
Moderator


Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 10087
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, long time no see. welcome back, big danish.

i agree with nilgiri here. i am sure there is lots of room for improvement in your game.
that doesn't mean you didn't get bad beats and it doesn't mean you wont get them in the future.

your ring game strategy really doesn't say much, but I do remember we used to play at the same tables some point last year. from what i recall you have been really tight, to the point where it might be pretty expoitable (not that it really is a great danger at those levels)

regarding your mtt strat:
it sounds pretty solid overall, though i think you might tend to overplay small PP and AJ type of hands with an average stack and in regards to the action prior to your turn.

imo just finally try to get brm in place. i know you read about it and it really isn't so tough to follow.
also post hands you played in the according strat sections (pls no bad beat stories, but rather key hands where you might not be sure if you took the right line etc)

GL
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TheBigDanish
Two Pair


Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigpairde wrote:
hey, long time no see. welcome back, big danish.

i agree with nilgiri here. i am sure there is lots of room for improvement in your game.
that doesn't mean you didn't get bad beats and it doesn't mean you wont get them in the future.

your ring game strategy really doesn't say much, but I do remember we used to play at the same tables some point last year. from what i recall you have been really tight, to the point where it might be pretty expoitable (not that it really is a great danger at those levels)

regarding your mtt strat:
it sounds pretty solid overall, though i think you might tend to overplay small PP and AJ type of hands with an average stack and in regards to the action prior to your turn.

imo just finally try to get brm in place. i know you read about it and it really isn't so tough to follow.
also post hands you played in the according strat sections (pls no bad beat stories, but rather key hands where you might not be sure if you took the right line etc)

GL


Hey mate, I was actually wondering if you'd remember me Wink

I know I could have filled in on the ring game part, but in ring games I usually never play unless I'm going to win. My Holdem Indicator (which I use for statistics), has me on a 72% win ratio on of the showdown out of 1500 hands.

I sure will. I'm gonna come back with a decent bankroll, and this time manage it! I hope I'll see you at the table soon
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tiltslowplayer
Four of a Kind


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"... its PROBABLY my own fault ..."

Come on man, give yourself a shake.
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nuknuk420
High Card


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the fact that your complainging about a couple bad beats and the way you say things just makes me think that you got a lot to learn bro
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conanav
Royal Flush


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 812
Location: Anywhere but here.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As said, I haven't really utilitized any Bankroll Management rules, as I usually have to little to follow even Chris's


$50 gets you 25 BIs at 2NL, just play that. BRM has nothing to do with your actual bankroll but whether the limits you are playing are proportional to your bankroll.

Also, if you cannot beat 2NL because of whatever reason, you do have plenty to learn.

Quote:

My Holdem Indicator (which I use for statistics), has me on a 72% win ratio on of the showdown out of 1500 hands.


72% win ratio is meaningless, it might be that you winning small 72% of the time and losing a BI with the 28%.
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Lucky Boru
High Card


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Lot to learn. Reply with quote

First of all, if Phil Ivey can say recently on TV during a tournament that he is constantly learning and specifically learned 3 or 4 things in the last WSOP 2009 that he wouldn't share, but will help him ... then everyone on this site should be constantly learning.

I record all Poker on TV and study how the pros select their hands, place their bets and anything else I can glean from them.

I believe playing low stakes like I do while learning does not allow you to make any special plays or bluffs because most players are too dumb and will call all the way to the River with nothing. Best to just trap them with a set.

I have a bad WIN story though. I've got AK vs QQ and play it very carefully because I rarely win with AK no matter what the percentage is. Imagine around 46% on this hand. Anyway the poor guy was shocked, because I won the hand without ever hitting an Ace or a King. The board was 5555 blank and I won with my Ace high. Is that considered a suck out, lol. Cool

Question on how to play As Kc vs Jh 3h flop is Kh Qh 5d. I bet preflop and equal to the pot on the flop. I figure it's 14% for enemy to catch a flush, right? He goes all in and so I do too and he catches a heart for the flush. How could I have played this better? Shocked
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conanav
Royal Flush


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 812
Location: Anywhere but here.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Question on how to play As Kc vs Jh 3h flop is Kh Qh 5d. I bet preflop and equal to the pot on the flop. I figure it's 14% for enemy to catch a flush, right? He goes all in and so I do too and he catches a heart for the flush. How could I have played this better? Shocked


WTF? Since when is it 14% to catch a flush going AI OTF? In the hand you mentioned you are only 61-39 favorite, how you got 14 is beyond me.
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AtomicReaction
Pair


Joined: 02 Jan 2010
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Lot to learn. Reply with quote

Lucky Boru wrote:

I record all Poker on TV and study how the pros select their hands, place their bets and anything else I can glean from them.


Kind of a noob here, but I figured I would throw in my two cents.

I would say that watching pros on television can be a double-edged sword. Sure you get a couple ideas about how they play certain hands and their general over-arching strategy, but you can also pick up some really bad habits. As a previous poster noted, a lot of the pros make moves specifically based on who they are up against that wouldn't make any sense against a random.
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FranksTower09
High Card


Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: I'm broke again - I'm gonna expose my soul. Reply with quote

TheBigDanish wrote:
So.. Here we are again.. I'm broke once more. I must say its probably my own fault, as I never deposited an amount high enough to use proper Bankroll management rules, but thats not the point.

Today has been so bad, I'm really thinking about dropping this game once and for all. Through my poker career I have lost close to 400$ (over 2 years). All have been deposited 50$ or so at the time. Because I always wait months between plays, I always end up going down a lot in the beginning. Then I up it almost to the 50$ and then bleed out. It usually takes between 2 weeks to 2 months.

I had my Aces crapped on a a set of 5's, where I'd say I put so much in preflop, the guy shouldn't have even called. Pocket Q, and Pocket K cracked by Pocket A's. I have had 2 flopped sets, cracked by full houses on the turn/river. In a Tournament I played today I have been deal crap hands for more then 100 hands in a row, and when I finally got something (the pocket Q), I got cracked out by Pocket A. All this happend today alone, and its not a rarity.

As said, I haven't really utilitized any Bankroll Management rules, as I usually have to little to follow even Chris's. I have read lots of books, and seen lets of videos about everything from strategies, to actual tournaments.

Anyway, I said I'd expose my soul, and I'm a guy of my word. I'm gonna tell you in detail how I play the game. I know this will come back to haunt be later, but I need to know if its me who stinks, or what the hell is wrong here.

Tournament Play: I usually play this very tight and very aggressive. Hands I play, I usually always open with a preflop raise. If I'm high stacked, with no real stack opposition, I like to lean a lot. In this position I'm usually never in trouble so I'll leave this out.

If I have below or average stack, I play tight, only play pockets and A 10+ (depending on position). In this situation I'm very aggressive with pockets, especially high pockets. I usually either go all in (usually with pockets between 5-J), if there is no big raises, or limp and hopes for a set. With any Pocket higher then that, I play very aggressive, preflop raises between 3-5 blinds. If I'm reraised, I usually go all in. If I'm called, and theres no over cards, I keep up the aggression. If there is an over card, theres a lot of things I can do, depending on the reads.

With AJ, AQ, AK, I usually preflop raise. If I'm reraised, depending on the amount, I usually call. If I totally miss the flop, with no high cards, I usually assume he didn't hit either, and go in for the killing. If he comes over me again, I'd probably flop, do to the fact that usually means a pocket.

Low stacked, I usually go all in with any decent hand. Not much to tell about this.


My Bluffs: I'd describle my bluffs as Gus Hansens lines in his Full Tilt commercial. "I'm about to tell you a story, it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. True or false? doesn't matter, its all about how I tell it". By this I mean, is, if I got to see the flop cheaply, and the flop comes 3c 5c 10d. Now my enemy bets 3 big blinds. If I put him on a pair of 10s, and I decide to try to bluff it, I'll represent a straight/flush. I'll call him, and if I hit something lets say 7c. He bets the same, but this time I reraise him 9 big blinds. He if calls, and the river comes 2d (or something else completely off), and he checks it, I'd go all in.

In my mind, this is a good representation of the flush. Ofc I usually like to close it off a lot earlier, and bluff something smaller, but you get the idea.


Ring Games: I usually keep it to blind steals and safe plays.


I could probably put 10 times more detail on this, but I really hope I don't have to.

Where am I leaking?


See the bold above.

You can hope the higher the stakes the fewer times this will happen, but you can definitely guarantee at the micro and slightly higher stakes, you're gonna have someone going in "when they shouldn't" nearly every single hand.
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