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Aelfinn
Four of a Kind
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 313
Location: South Dakota
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 Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| Yeah, if I had thought it was obvious I probably wouldn't have spent a paragraph replying to it, because I would've known that you meant what you meant and not what you said and what I thought you meant. |
Simple fix to that problem. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 9910
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you may be taking this a bit too personally. Just as HuJwang suggested, I'm not disagreeing for personal reasons, but because I happen to disagree. Misunderstandings happen, and I prefer clearing them up to just ignoring people. |
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Aelfinn
Four of a Kind
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 313
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Aelfinn wrote: |
| nilgiri wrote: |
| Aelfinn wrote: |
| nilgiri wrote: |
| Aelfinn wrote: |
| As far as have 31% equity, I agree that 31% is almost enough to get it in here, but not quite enough for me peronally. |
"Almost" means that he rarely has to fold for it to be +EV. Hu's point (I think) is not that it's almost +EV, so that's a good reason to shove (which btw makes no sense); it's that it's almost +EV when he calls. Given that he's folding some not-insignificant percent of the time, it now becomes +EV to shove.
Also, I'm really unclear what your personal preference has to do with this... |
This is the only part of what you have said that I disagree with. In my experience at 25 NL most villians are 3 betting with a narrow enough range that I think they will rarely fold here. I don't think its unrealistic to assume that villian has AK or TT+. If we shove he probably only folds if he has AK and we called by all of his other likely hands. |
6*3 combos of TT-QQ + 3*2 combos of KK-AA = 24 combos that call
9 combos of AK = 9 combos that fold
24/(24+9) = 72.7% call (so 27.3% fold)
Equity vs. TT+ = 23.56%
$43.26 * .2356 - $14.73 (EV when he calls) * .727
+
$13.80 * .273
=
$0.47 EV if you shove
It's still +EV.
This is assuming he never, ever has anything other than TT+/AK.
| Quote: |
| And FWIW poker is a game of incomplete information. What decisions we come to after assessing the info we have is a matter of peronal preference. |
That's fine. After assessing all the information available to you, it could be someone's personal preference to always fold AA preflop. What I don't understand is how one's personal preference is relevant in a strategy thread. Either a line is +EV or not, no?
Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean when you say, "I agree that 31% is almost enough to get it in here, but not quite enough for me peronally." Are you actually saying that it isn't enough for you, but for other people it might be enough, or do you mean something else? |
I'm not going to argue with your math, it appears it is +EV to shove here.
Poker would be a very simple game if every line was simply +EV or not. Each persons individual preference obviously comes into play, even where strategy is concerned. I prefer to put villian on a tighter range here than others that have posted. Because of this preference my strategy on how to play this hand differs from yours. I think it is obtuse to say preference and opinion have no place in a strategy thread.
But FWIW I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Its made me think about this hand in a different light. That is the point right? |
| Riddim wrote: |
| I think you may be taking this a bit too personally. Just as HuJwang suggested, I'm not disagreeing for personal reasons, but because I happen to disagree. Misunderstandings happen, and I prefer clearing them up to just ignoring people. |
This is the post where I tried to end this whole conversation. I admitted that it does in fact appear to be +EV to shove. I also indicated that I enjoyed that back and forth as I genuinely learned something, which is the whole point of me wanting to participate in this forum in the first.
After we had it all wrapped up with a nice little bow on it you decided to nit pick over things that had no relavence to the hand in question at all. That is only reason I am a tilted a bit by this.
I had no actual intention of ignoring you as you usually contribute quality posts which I enjoy reading. It was inserted for effect only.
Can we please /thread now? |
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aur3ll
Two Pair
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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lol u mathematic are not good
he obv have a hand that beat urs if he were playing hes ace-9 or whatever like this he wouldnt have money to play poker anymore |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8688
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| aur3ll wrote: |
lol u mathematic are not good
he obv have a hand that beat urs if he were playing hes ace-9 or whatever like this he wouldnt have money to play poker anymore |
no. |
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aur3ll
Two Pair
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| aur3ll wrote: |
lol u mathematic are not good
he obv have a hand that beat urs if he were playing hes ace-9 or whatever like this he wouldnt have money to play poker anymore |
no. |
yes
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8688
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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here is my actual graph
if you dont believe it i would be willing to play you heads up at any stakes up to $200 |
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Flying_Kiwi
Bird of Mystery
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 8241
Location: Eating an apple on the golf course in the sunshine
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
here is my actual graph
if you dont believe it i would be willing to play you heads up at any stakes up to $200 |
Move up to where they respect your posts imo. |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2003
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ZOMG HU4ROLL ITT |
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Moshiach
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4330
Location: Vic, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yesss dick swinging ensues, I'll take $50 on Hu |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 8688
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm pretty sure he has less than $200 in his account and won't play anyway |
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Peepers_au
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 1132
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Flying_Kiwi wrote: |
| HuJwang wrote: |
here is my actual graph
if you dont believe it i would be willing to play you heads up at any stakes up to $200 |
Move up to where they respect your posts imo. |
I LOLd. |
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aur3ll
Two Pair
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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yeah u play high stake so u obv dont know how to play lower stake
did he push all in did he lost....offcourse he did
unless the guy had KK QQ JJ TT and he got a lucky ace or king
i can play u 5$ hu anytime just pm me |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 3790
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| aur3ll wrote: |
| did he push all in did he lost....offcourse he did |
Ah yes, the first rule of good poker strategy: check the results to see if you won or lost.
| Quote: |
| i can play u 5$ hu anytime just pm me |
Is this offer open to anyone? |
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adam27x
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 3676
Location: New York/New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah and you know I'm bad too because of how I played this hand so if the offer is open to anyone, you'll probably want to take me up on it as well |
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