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gonefshng
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 894
Location: give me rakeback liberty or give you death
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 Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: line check |
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Tournament - Razz (150/300), Ante 25, Bring-In 50 ()
Seat 1: 555
Seat 2: 2,088
Hero: 1,360
Seat 5: 4,734
Seat 6: 2,651
Seat 8: 535
3rd Street - (1.00 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx 5 ___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 8 ___brings-in___folds
Hero: 7 3 A ___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6 ___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3 ___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A ___completes
4th Street - (4.33 SB)
Hero: 7 3 A 4 ___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 8 ___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A T ___calls
5th Street - (3.67 BB)
Hero: 7 3 A 4 9 ___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 8 T ___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A T 2 ___calls 210 (all-in)
this is mbj, so of course i have pretty good reads on the players and also know i have the best hand with 5 cards. After 5th i'm only worried about the bigger stack in the hand, with a small side pot going.
I dont think checking here would be too smart, even when trying to eliminate another player.
Other streets to follow
I googled for this hand converter, does anyone know of a better one for razz? |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 4358
Location: blogging a bit, again
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.andyblackwood.com/converter.html usually does the trick. Or I sometimes just use 2+2's.
Push it. You have a made 9 w/7 redraw w/fairly live cards vs. a made T with an an 8 redraw with several outs burned. You have a lot of equity here. Run it through propokertools. |
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gonefshng
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 894
Location: give me rakeback liberty or give you death
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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It actually showed the conversion site before i hit submit, as well as the tourny name, date etc.
This converter was andyblackwood. It looked weird before i hit submit. It looks fine now with some small tweaking. You have to hit spacebar after the word heart etc. and before call to convert.
If you quote the OP you'll see what I mean |
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cubbies760
Drawing Dead
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 12158
Location: Sailing Away...
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see why you wouldn't want to continue betting here. You're ahead of the side pot villian, while having a redraw that's better than his draw. Checking only lets him catch up for free.
If you're considering attempting to check it down, I don't like it. Get some more value from the sidepot, while protecting your hand for showdown against the all-in.
I'm wondering why you didn't complete on 3rd....was it based on some sort of read of the players yet to act? |
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tjs545
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yea I agree with what's been said, I would continue betting since we are way ahead to take the side pot. No need to let him catch up.
| cubbies760 wrote: |
I'm wondering why you didn't complete on 3rd....was it based on some sort of read of the players yet to act? |
I like to simply call the bring-in coming from early position even with my stronger hands. That way I can re-pop if someone completes behind me or call and disguise the strength of my hand for later streets. I will also get a little more respect when I do the same thing with more marginal holdings. You could have reraised to try and fold the 3rd player, but I think it's fine as is. |
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skeeter1114
Voice of Reason
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 4069
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| tjs545 wrote: |
| I like to simply call the bring-in coming from early position even with my stronger hands. That way I can re-pop if someone completes behind me or call and disguise the strength of my hand for later streets. I will also get a little more respect when I do the same thing with more marginal holdings. |
I don't like this at all. It's too easy to start A-2-3, A-4-6, or 7-5-2 and brick the next 2 streets, while some guy, who calls with an 8 showing, has a board come of 2-3 on the next 2 streets, making it a bad call. The 7-3-A is a hand I might only call, especially if I'm showing the 7 and there are some other low cards showing behind me. But, with the ace showing, I may complete here. |
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adam27x
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 4992
Location: New York/New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| I complete on 3rd here all day imo. As played, keep betting. |
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alex j beeson
Luckbox Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3190
Location: Riding the Rakeback gravy train
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| keep betting. |
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gonefshng
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 894
Location: give me rakeback liberty or give you death
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I dont complete or raise on 3rd, because of the chip stacks. I feel at that point it would be 3 or 4 bet. Although, I have a good hand, i don't want to put that many chips in the pot, when i may be behind, flipping or just a small fav. With an 8 doing the bringin, there are all low cards showing and some of my outs. My reads are no one is folding
I'm giving my opponents credit for two downcards 8 and lower here. Though a favourite, I'm still only win > 43%
Razz Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand ..Pot equity ...Wins .....Ties
73A ....42.65% ....253,772 ..4,208
8-76 ...23.05% ....137,522.. 1,547
8-7a ...34.30% ....203,723... 4,215
Tournament - Razz (150/300), Ante 25, Bring-In 50 ()
Seat 1: 555
Seat 2: 2,088
Hero: 1,360
Seat 5: 4,734
Seat 6: 2,651
Seat 8: 535
3rd Street - (1.00 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx 5 ___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 8 ___brings-in___folds
Hero: 7 3 A ___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6 ___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3 ___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A ___completes
4th Street - (4.33 SB)
Hero: 7 3 A 4 ___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 8 ___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A T ___calls
5th Street - (3.67 BB)
Hero: 7 3 A 4 9 ___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 8 T ___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A T 2 ___calls 210 (all-in)
Razz Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand ......Pot equity ....Wins ......Ties
73A49 ......55.35%.... 330,611..2,971
(8-768T) ..14.49% ......86,500 ...850
8-7AT2 ....30.16% .....179,347..3,263
6th Street - (6.37 BB)
Hero: 7 3 A 4 9 4
Seat 5: xx xx 6 8 T A
Seat 8: xx xx A T 2 Q ___all-in
I paired, seat 5 hits an Ace(i'm thinking he may have paired an ace, unlikely tho, it would be the case ace). There is like 1700 in main pot and 200 in side pot
Do I bet here?, call a raise or bet ? So far, advice has been get it in. |
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StooIC
Taking a Timeout
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 943
Location: Looking at you through the glass. Don't know how much time has passed.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gotta love razz. Ride it into the ground. Seat 8 going to river the wheel on both of you. |
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alex j beeson
Luckbox Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3190
Location: Riding the Rakeback gravy train
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| seat 5 will be first to act. call his bet. If he checks take the free card cause he will be check raising you. |
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gonefshng
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 894
Location: give me rakeback liberty or give you death
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| alex j beeson wrote: |
| seat 5 will be first to act. call his bet. If he checks take the free card cause he will be check raising you. |
1 post ago, your advice was "keep betting". Care to explain? |
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StooIC
Taking a Timeout
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 943
Location: Looking at you through the glass. Don't know how much time has passed.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| What Alex said. You should check. You are beat and you are only playing for the side pot as the all-in guy is going to river the wheel. |
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alex j beeson
Luckbox Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3190
Location: Riding the Rakeback gravy train
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| gonefshng wrote: |
| alex j beeson wrote: |
| seat 5 will be first to act. call his bet. If he checks take the free card cause he will be check raising you. |
1 post ago, your advice was "keep betting". Care to explain? |
On 5th street you are a touch ahead. One more brick for him and your 9 is good.
Your 6th street card makes your made 9 less able to be good.
Seat 8 is no problem, your made 9 will be plenty to beat him. Villian in seat 5 could hit an 8. You can still beat the 8 however and you cant fold now.
He is going to represent a made 8 whether he actually has it or not. If he checks he is going to check raise you, if he bets and you raise and he only calls, he doesnt have the 8 yet, if he reraises you he has a made 8.
Your safest bet is to take a free card or see the 7th for as cheaply as possible. If you make a 7 then you raise raise raise and get as much iin as possible, if you brick, you find out for one more bet if your 9 is good or not. |
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gonefshng
Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 894
Location: give me rakeback liberty or give you death
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Still doesn't explain what "keep betting" meant. I took that to mean, bet every street. It's not unusal for 1 card to make a big difference tho. I don't feel that folding to a bet here is a big mistake either. I have about 800 chips left and if seat 5 bets 6th, I'm pretty sure I'll be facing another bet on 7th, whether he improves or not. |
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