| Author |
Message |
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: |
 |
|
| Nazareth wrote: |
| ...why, if the deal is supposed to be the same randomkness, do the Stud games not show the same consistency of two pair/trips/full houses that Razz does? |
If everybody sees the showdown the number of full houses will be approximately the same in the long run at both games. Crazy things happen in the short term in poker, and our mind is programmed to try to interpret these events into some sort of pattern, even if it doesn't exist.
Don't worry, everything is fine with the shuffle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jaconda78
Moderator
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 4179
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If by "sponser" you mean "provide me with a place where my poker skills can win me a fairly large amount of money," yes, full tilt does sponsor me. Other than that, I get nothing from them. Again, come up with numbers and proof, not "it seems like..." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DandyWarhol
High Card
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
...
Last edited by DandyWarhol on Sun May 07, 2006 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
In general I've stopped contributing to these discussions, because it has all been said already (and I have to deal with 'its rigged' emails all day at work). However, I just want to pick up on a point or two:
| DandyWarhol wrote: |
| People are so quick to say that online poker is rigged, but people are also quick to jump to its rescue and totally berate the people who disagree with them. |
There is a reason for that. Most of the time, people who write about a site being 'rigged' or otherwise non-random are writing with their emotions, not their logic. They come across as less intelligent because they sound angry, rarely show any knowledge of spelling, punctuation or grammar (you are a pleasant change from this), often feel the need to defend themselves ('I win when I play live', 'I have been playing for twenty years', 'I am an overall winning player') and often show a lack of knowledge of how probability works ('this happens ALL the time').
| Quote: |
| Some days, I will sit down at a table, and 90% of the time (no joke)...catch perfect boards with four cards to a seven a good 75% of the hands they play, FOR AN HOUR...I'll get sucked out on the river about 80% of the time...Regularly (2-3 times a week)... This happens ALL the time |
The problem with quoting figures like these is that its obvious you have made them up. They don't stem from any research you've done, you've just thrown them out there and expected us to believe you. If you're going to quote figures like these, especially in relation to such a controversial topic, you need evidence to back them up. Show us proof!
| Quote: |
| I wish there was something where I could keep track of the hands and how many I win in a session and such. I think it would make everyone a little curious. |
PokerTracker is just one example of a program that will do this for you, and it comes in Hold'em, Omaha, and Stud versions that cover every game at Full Tilt. Feel free to post the results of any analysis you do using these tools. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DandyWarhol
High Card
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
...
Last edited by DandyWarhol on Sun May 07, 2006 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sigh. I guess there are a couple of explanations for your losses:
1. A member of Full Tilt staff who monitors every forum post day and night has flipped a 'doom switch' on your account so that the deal is manipulated in hands that you play, making it impossible for you to win.
2. You aren't as good a player as you think you are, therefore you will win less often than you feel you deserve.
3. Playing as tightly as you are may not be the optimal strategy for games where people are chasing a lot and the pots are getting big.
Applying Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) will help you find the correct explanation.
| Quote: |
| I just played 521 hands and won a total of 43 |
That's about 8.25% of hands, which is fairly low but nothing too unusual considering that typically you'll be playing less than 33% of starting hands and not all of these will hold up. Its the size of the pots you win, not how many, that determines your results at the end of a session. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DandyWarhol
High Card
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: Re: |
|
|
...
Last edited by DandyWarhol on Sun May 07, 2006 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: Re: |
|
|
| DandyWarhol wrote: |
| Exactly. I'm glad your condescending, know it all, jerk off self finally understands. |
If you took the time to read what I've written rather than immediately dismissing it, maybe you'd save a few bucks. It was not my intention to be condescending, rather harsh but fair. Sometimes the best way to help someone is to be brutally honest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
niccolo
High Card
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Memories are selective.
When I play Razz, I SEEM to get a lot of big pairs and rolled up trips.
On the other hand, when I play Stud-high, I SEEM to get a lot of nice Razz starting hands.
We just remember those weird hands more because we think: "Ahhh...man, if I were playing [insert game #1], this would be a GREAT hand but I gotta fold it because I'm playing [insert game #2]". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2467
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: Re: |
|
|
| niccolo wrote: |
Memories are selective.
When I play Razz, I SEEM to get a lot of big pairs and rolled up trips.
On the other hand, when I play Stud-high, I SEEM to get a lot of nice Razz starting hands.
We just remember those weird hands more because we think: "Ahhh...man, if I were playing [insert game #1], this would be a GREAT hand but I gotta fold it because I'm playing [insert game #2]". |
Exactly. Memory research dating to the 1970's has shown this over and over and over again. Memory is indeed selective. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drizzler
Pair
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 45
|
| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: Re: |
|
|
| niccolo wrote: |
Memories are selective.
|
That's true. I know I will be quite selective when I look back on today's 6-hour Razz session. I was dealt five sets (one was AAA), and made four boats by 6th street, one of which was AAA2234 after starting with A23 (ouch). I haven't had that kind of run in 20 years playing stud. But it happens. And I won't soon forget it.
Oh, I also got knocked out of a tournament after three and a half hours (eight spots out of the money) when the guy hit his 3-outer (needed an Ace) on the river.
That's poker.
--
Driz
ps. My first post here after playing FTP for about 6 months. Hi everyone! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaconda78
Moderator
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 4179
|
| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Re: |
|
|
| drizzler wrote: |
| niccolo wrote: |
Memories are selective.
|
That's true. I know I will be quite selective when I look back on today's 6-hour Razz session. I was dealt five sets (one was AAA), and made four boats by 6th street, one of which was AAA2234 after starting with A23 (ouch). I haven't had that kind of run in 20 years playing stud. But it happens. And I won't soon forget it.
Oh, I also got knocked out of a tournament after three and a half hours (eight spots out of the money) when the guy hit his 3-outer (needed an Ace) on the river.
That's poker.
--
Driz
ps. My first post here after playing FTP for about 6 months. Hi everyone! |
Welcome to the forum. You have no idea how happy it makes me to see someone whose first post is a defence of the RNG rather than a "this is R1GG3D!!!!1111!!1!!!!!010101!!!" post. I'm sure you'll fit in just fine with the regulars. Sorry to hear bout that run - makes me cringe just to think of it.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drizzler
Pair
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 45
|
| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: |
|
|
| Jaconda78 wrote: |
| You have no idea how happy it makes me to see someone whose first post is a defence of the RNG rather than a "this is R1GG3D!!!!1111!!1!!!!!010101!!!" post. |
You know it's funny, people very rarely (never?) complain about the RNG when they're running hot, catching every draw in sight. It's only when the cards turn cold that we tend to get upset. It's only natural.
Someday down the road, maybe at FTP maybe not, I'm sure I'll have a nice run playing Stud where I'll catch a bunch of sets and boats like I did yesterday in Razz. But I'll be more apt to remember the times when the Stud cards are filling out into perfect Razz hands for hours on end.
--
Driz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DandyWarhol
High Card
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I love Full Tilt poker. It is the best site ever. I love Razz. I love Full Tilt Poker for having Razz it is the only site that does.
Full Tilt is awesome!!!!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotstick
Pair
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 21
|
| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am fairly new to the razz scene, but I have become a razz fanatic.
To respond to your skepticism of the integrity of the RNG's-
You claim that you never catch these kind of hands while playing stud. Well, of course not.
When playing stud, everyone is working for any number of hands. Low str8's, high str8, sets, flushes, etc. In other words, all cards are in play. In razz however, most people are going to fold any starting hand that has a card above an 8 in it. All the high cards have been mucked and the only people in are playing low cards. This, of course, increases the chance of pairing up your low cards.
Another important thing to remember is that suites do not amount to anything in razz. In stud/hold'em/omaha however, they play a HUGE role. People are going to hold on to their smaller suited cards. So you're going to see more variations of hands in stud because people are holding on to all denominations of cards.
I promise you it's not a defect in the RNG. I have experienced a great number of bad beats and runner-runner bricks just like everybody else. You are not the only one. It is painful to see A-2-3's go down the tubes.
I suggest eveluating your play, see what mistakes you have made and adjust. Also, get to know your opponents. Their are alot of live ones on this site that enable observant players to turn a profit.
Raise with the best, fold the rest.
Hope this has shed a little light on the subject.
Good luck,
-Hotstick-
P.S. If you ever play razz live, you will notice the same patterns emerge.
Count your outs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
