| Author |
Message |
skeeter1114
Voice of Reason
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 3963
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: Is Villian's play here alright? |
 |
|
This guy has a wide range and I figured AK was more than likely good. Should he be calling after a raise on 5th? Also, if I think AK is good here on 3rd or 4th, should I be popping him on these streets?
Full Tilt Poker Game #10478960056: MBJ HORSE Season 4 (78280729), Table 2 - 600/1200 Ante 100 - Limit Stud Hi - 23:22:49 ET - 2009/02/06
Seat 2: warman24 (9,432)
Seat 3: BBCOACH44 (7,434)
Seat 4: MAN-OF-ST33L (6,578)
Seat 6: dcdoorknob (2,170)
Seat 7: bryan24 (5,217)
Seat 8: skeeter1114 (5,169)
warman24 antes 100
BBCOACH44 antes 100
MAN-OF-ST33L antes 100
dcdoorknob antes 100
bryan24 antes 100
skeeter1114 antes 100
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to warman24 [7h]
Dealt to BBCOACH44 [8s]
Dealt to MAN-OF-ST33L [4s]
Dealt to dcdoorknob [6h]
Dealt to bryan24 [8h]
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Ks Ad] [3d]
skeeter1114 is low with [3d]
skeeter1114 brings in for 200
warman24 folds
BBCOACH44 folds
MAN-OF-ST33L folds
dcdoorknob folds
bryan24 completes it to 600
skeeter1114 calls 400
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to bryan24 [8h] [Ac]
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Ks Ad 3d] [2s]
bryan24 bets 600
skeeter1114 calls 600
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to bryan24 [8h Ac] [5s]
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Ks Ad 3d 2s] [Kc]
bryan24 bets 1,200
skeeter1114 raises to 2,400
bryan24 calls 1,200
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to bryan24 [8h Ac 5s] [9c]
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Ks Ad 3d 2s Kc] [7s]
bryan24 bets 1,200
skeeter1114 raises to 1,469, and is all in
bryan24 calls 269
skeeter1114 shows [Ks Ad 3d 2s Kc 7s]
bryan24 shows [5d 3h 8h Ac 5s 9c]
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to bryan24 [5d 3h 8h Ac 5s 9c] [As]
Dealt to skeeter1114 [Ks Ad 3d 2s Kc 7s] [6s]
skeeter1114 shows [Ks Ad 3d 2s Kc 7s 6s] a pair of Kings
bryan24 shows [5d 3h 8h Ac 5s 9c As] two pair, Aces and Fives
bryan24 wins the pot (10,738) with two pair, Aces and Fives
skeeter1114 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10,738 | Rake 0
Seat 2: warman24 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: BBCOACH44 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: MAN-OF-ST33L folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: dcdoorknob folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: bryan24 showed [5d 3h 8h Ac 5s 9c As] and won (10,738) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 8: skeeter1114 showed [Ks Ad 3d 2s Kc 7s 6s] and lost with a pair of Kings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Big Slick x13x
Forum Icon
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 5603
Location: The U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I like the way you played it. And if he thinks you only have one pair and is feeling like gambling the pot is too big for him to fold. Generally players that are new to stud and not playing at high limits it's usually not that bad of an idea to call as long as you beat your opponents board. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skeeter1114
Voice of Reason
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 3963
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Big Slick x13x wrote: |
| Generally players that are new to stud and not playing at high limits it's usually not that bad of an idea to call as long as you beat your opponents board. |
I usually follow this rule. However, if I'm short stacked and get raised when a king hits the board, and I only have 55, I think I'm folding. But I don't think he has the ability to fold once he has made any pair/any draw. I consider Stud to be the weakest of my 5 games in HORSE, so I may post hands where I don't understand the play, and see if I have the right thoughts or if I am off.
Should I be raising on 3rd or 4th though if I think AK is good? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hghlndr6
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2221
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Skeeter's play wasn't the question , Slick. Villain's was. I don't like villain's play at all ... beginning with the complete on 3rd with basically nothing. But maybe he felt committed after that, though he really wasn't.
Skeeter ... a raise on 3rd might have saved your *** ...but I think he was going to showdown anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Strasse
Forum ***
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 6777
Location: Houston, TX
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'd either raise or fold on 3rd. I don't like a call down in this situation. Sometimes I'd be more inclined to call and let him continue betting if i had a small pair, but with just AK, I'm either raising or folding, depending on how likely I think I am to get him to fold at some point in the hand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hghlndr6
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2221
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Just read it again, Skeeter. I know it's not what you asked but your play was fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skeeter1114
Voice of Reason
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 3963
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Strasse wrote: |
| I'd either raise or fold on 3rd. I don't like a call down in this situation. Sometimes I'd be more inclined to call and let him continue betting if i had a small pair, but with just AK, I'm either raising or folding, depending on how likely I think I am to get him to fold at some point in the hand. |
| Hghlndr6 wrote: |
| Skeeter ... a raise on 3rd might have saved your *** ...but I think he was going to showdown anyway. |
See, raising on 3rd is exactly I'm thinking I should have done as I replay the hand in my mind. I know 2 things here: 1.) He is simply completing because I was the bring-in and there's no one else in the hand. 2.) AK is more than likely good here.
Once he makes the pair on 5th, he's never folding. Whether he should or not is irrelevant. As I said when I lost this hand, my notes were 100% correct on him. He can't fold once he has made any type of pair/draw, no matter how bad it is. I also think that even if I raise on 3rd, he's calling at a minimum, and once the ace hits on 4th, he's never folding. I think some who have played with him may be able to verify this too.
And hghlndr, though I asked about the villain's play, I not only know mine will be commented on, but want it to in this case. While I certainly know the rules of stud and the basics, this is the game I need to learn some strategies about, especially with starting hands.
That being said, to big slick, strasse, or anyone else: Was the villain's play ok here or was it as bad as I think it may have been? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bryan24
High Card
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi, villian here trying to help u out skeeter. Its easier for me to make a reply the morning after and not while I am caught up in the emotions of the game. sooooo here goes. A couple of things in this hand stand out to me. First is you commited to the hand early on when you called my complete with AK high (not a bad hand but still no pairs at this point). Ok so on 4th I get an Ace and bet out trying to show Aces but you stubbornly call (still with nothing). Stuck with my portrayal of Aces on 5th when I bet out, and your raise at this point had little meaning to me as I am now commited to the hand. I gave you credit for a pair at this point but knew I was still in with a chance. So lets roll the dice.... I got what I needed , you did not.
In hindsight I think Highlander's comment is probably correct. If you reraise me on 3rd I probably fold as I am not even close to being commited at this point . However as I said earlier , your raise on 5th didnt mean anything as we were going to 7th at that point.
Honestly a case could be made for both of us playing the hand wrong but hey its poker and there are many different ways to play a given situation. As far as you comment about your notes being right, I would tell you notes are overrated . Notes are great if someone plays the same way every time. However, they can get you in trouble when you come up against someone that switches gears as much as I do.....
Good luck this week , see you next friday night..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Strasse
Forum ***
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 6777
Location: Houston, TX
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First my comment to Bryan: You aren't repping aces, because you were betting before the ace hit. You are just betting hoping to get him to fold.
To skeeter about villians play: His play on 3rd and 4th is correct, especially after hitting the ace on 4th. If I was him on 5th, in a cash game, I'd definately either call or raise. In a tournament, its a little stickier. He has already put in half his stack at this point, and since you are repping kings, he has a pair plus an overcard with the ace. I'd prob just raise you back to get it in on 5th. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skeeter1114
Voice of Reason
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 3963
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Strasse wrote: |
| First my comment to Bryan: You aren't repping aces, because you were betting before the ace hit. You are just betting hoping to get him to fold. |
Exactly. I knew exactly why he completed. This is why I asked, about my hand, whether I should re-raise on 3rd. Bryan, I don't think you are folding here on 3rd. From how I've seen you play, you have not demonstrated the ability to consistently fold here or in a similar situation.
| Strasse wrote: |
| To skeeter about villians play: His play on 3rd and 4th is correct, especially after hitting the ace on 4th. If I was him on 5th, in a cash game, I'd definately either call or raise. In a tournament, its a little stickier. He has already put in half his stack at this point, and since you are repping kings, he has a pair plus an overcard with the ace. I'd prob just raise you back to get it in on 5th. |
Well this is why I asked about it. Though I was unhappy about it at the time, thinking about it does make me realize that from 5th on, it wasn't a horrible play. I understand the completion, but once I call, should he slow up if the next card either doesn't pair or come an ace? Even when the ace comes, doesn't he have to be concerned that I'm at least representing a pair. Then on 5th, when the king comes, and I'm repping (and actually have the pair, but that's beside the point here) the king, doesn't he have to be concerned that though he has 5's, he's probably beat? I guess my question here is should he ever fold, or is he too short-stacked and too committed with his hand (and possible potential) where he should just get it all in at that time. I guess if you think you're beat on 5th, either fold or shove and gamble.
Finally, to Bryan. All I said was that my notes were accurate. I will stick to them. I have questioned the play, as you have seen in this post. However, as I learn some strategies or scenarios in both Stud and Omaha, I will post hands that I deem questionable (especially when I'm on the wrong end) to see whether I am justified or just too involved in the situation to see the correct play. Having come back from 1,200 chips with limits of 500/1000 earlier, I think you have enough chips to fold if you think you're beat on 5th and still make a comeback. You saw how wild the chip swings were at that table. Maybe that played a role into my thinking too. I still question your play, but appears not to be as bad as I originally thought. In any event, I will see you next week. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB Copyright 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
