Online Poker Forum - urgent help please

J0e 0Ne1LL · Pair Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 35

been playing limit for about a month or two now. ive read lee jones' book and have been putting it to practise on the tables. im really struggling to profit . ive played 23 sessions only profiting in 7 sessions. 3 of which have been less then $2 profit, 1 just under $3 then 3 $4+. now i dont understand this as i stick to the starting hands that lee suggests and play the way he suggests. i have the notes in font of me when im playing to help me. admittedly ive made a few mistakes here and there but not enough to be losing nearly every session i play. is there any advice that could help me.

thanks for any help

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 8189

It could help the situation if you can relate your profit in terms of PTBB/100, or Pokertracker Big Bets won per hundred hands played. If, for example, after 7 sessions of .25/.50 LHE, you've made (3x2 + 1x3 + 3x4 = $21) profit, you've made $21/.50 = 42 PTBB. Even if you played 420 hands, that works out to be 10 PTBB/100 which is a really good rate and probably one that isn't sustainable long-term.

J0e 0Ne1LL · Pair Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 35

ok well i'll put that info here for ya.
BB/100 = -4.38
BB/Hour= -4.41
Amount Lost = -27.40
as you can see its not pretty.

Riddim · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject:

Boomer,

The PT in PTBB/100 is pretty unnecessary when it comes to limit, since big bets is pretty much the one and only unit except for dollars when talking about winrates.

OP,

Those numbers really don't mean much since it's only about 1250 hands even if you've played the lowest stakes available on FT. Books are good for learning general concepts and as a starting point for more specific situations. However, doing something simply because your book says so is only good if you don't know any better. Actively strive to eliminate the need for someone else to tell you how to play, until you're left with only the concepts on which the advice is based.

This is done by paying attention to how other people play, both as specific opponents and as parts of the player pool at the stakes you play, and thinking about how their tendencies should affect yours. When reading a poker book, try to not focus as much on the "how" as on the "why". If there is no "why" the book probably sucks and you should work on finding an alternative that lets you discard it as soon as possible (unless you understand the "why" on your own and the "how" makes sense).

Basically, even the best books usually can't teach you how to play the game, but will rather teach you how to think about the game and give you some rough guidelines of how what it teaches is applied in practice.

J0e 0Ne1LL · Pair Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 35

ok thnks for that riddiim. i kinda agree wiv what your saying cuz there are a few things that a i dont agree with that lee jones says in the book.

is there anyone that has read the book that would like to say what they've learnt from the book.

griffinlord · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject:

Jones book is a pretty good beginner book and it will take you from big loser to small loser or from small loser to small winner.

It has been a while, but I remember (re)learning about pot odds and board texture. (I had a nearly 20 year break from studying/playing poker, so I forgot much of what I once knew.)

I also went from a very passive player to a slightly aggressive player.

There is also a lot of folks who believe that even the micro games have gotten tougher than they were back when Jones' book was last updated. It really targets games that are full of recreational players. If you are playing beginners who are trying hard or other more serious/thinking players what you learn from Jones is going to be less useful/effective.

If you still need to have the book open while you are playing you aren't really ready to move on to more advanced material. You are clearly working at it, but I'd say you want something in the neighborhood of 10k hands of practice before moving to a more advanced text. By then you should achieve the goal Riddim set for you of understanding WHY the book is telling you to do something.

What I didn't learn was how swingy limit can be. Riddim correctly points out that 1250 hands at limit is a pretty small sample. I figured it out once a long time ago--with around 1000 hands your BB/100 is about +/- 10 BB. So you are likely somewhere between a -14BB/100 to + 6BB/100 player at your current skill level. (+/- 10 is approximate, I didn't take the time to refigure the correct value.)

But the swinginess can be both surprising and frustrating. Frustrating because you can play perfect poker and still lose over a 10k hand sample. A few years back I saw a post by a guy who had over 500k hands as a winning player and he wanted feedback on his most recent 100k hands where he was losing!

nienie23 · Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:16 am Post subject:

I have read Lee Jones book and it helped me a lot. Every once in a while, I have to reread some parts, mainly the postflop play. I also review every losing hand to see if there were mistakes. Some times you will lose but played it right. But you will realize that you can put your mistakes into a few categories. Did you play your small pocket pairs too far? Do you stick around when a maniac sits at the table and it's obviously his lucky day? What do you do when you get dealt AK and you miss the flop? I just figured out my problem on this today. Find out your mistakes and also how much they cost you and fix them, then go back to the table and don't do them again. There is also something that is out of my control. No matter how good my hand is, there is always a better hand. I flopped a flush ace high, my only flush in a month, the river card gave my opponent a fullhouse. Or you manage to finally hit you straight draw just to see a split pot. Every session I play is like that. I supposed that someday, the odds will the odds will give me those better hands.

Right now, I am right where you are. I make an effort in reading the board, trying to take into account the play of others and bit by bit, it sticks into my head. I will aso start reading books that will bring me a step further, hoping to turn those small loses into small gains. One last I did against Lee Jones preflop hands, I do not play pocket pairs nor Ax suited unless they are raisable. Flushes and flopped sets are like UFOs. I'll start playing them when I get more confidence.

ronnieb1111 · High Card Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 2

joe, in limit poker the most important thing to having a positive win rate is learning which cards to play in which position for instance I use a 5 seat rule, meaning in the first 5 seats i only enter the pot with top 5 hands AA,KK,QQ,AK,JJ fold all others and watch texture of board if u get played back at with these hands and u think u might be beat try keep pot small or fold theres always another hand in seat 6 and beyond if 2 people have limped im probably coming in with anything i like to see if i can flop a monster and i usually fold my blinds from a raise up front but call a raise from late position with anything suited or connected if noone has limped in front of me im folding anything thats not kq or better from middle and j-10 or better from cutoff and button in which i will be raising . if there is a raise in front of me im folding everything but aq or better most of the time hope this helps and gives u better guidelines

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