Online Poker Forum - 20/40 LHE, OOP Nightmare

doubledownA · Banned Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3323

Ok, I was at a local casino the other night playing 20/40 Limit. I had been running very hot on 10/20 Limit of late, had just gotten paid for the job and decided to step it up a notch. Plus the seat that was open was right next to a belligerant drunk donkey I had met previously at other tables. Table is 8 handed, for this hand I'm in early/mid position with JdJc.

The drunk belligerant donkey leads off the raising, 2nd position with a raise. Looking down at JJ i have a dilema. It's not a hand, ecspecially in such a high limit I like to play too hard OOP...but If I can get this drunk heads up...it could be very powerful hand. I know this guy will raise with most anything, any position on the table.

So I decide to push my JJ and re raise, hoping to create a heads up situation. Then, the player in 4th position makes a straight call. I instantly start thinking, what could he be calling me with? The action makes it's way back to the drunk who also calls for. The flop comes out great for my hand. 10c 8c 2h. Drunk guy checks to me, I bet out the $20 on the flop. Immediately the player to the right re raises me. This instantly leads me to believe that he has something like a AcKc or even maybe a AcQc He could easily have 10's or even 8's...I've been at the table such a short time, I really don't know.

The drunk folds and I decide to probe for more information and re raise. He just calls. This to me was a huge raise, I think I narrowed his offering to AcKc or maybe AcQc. Would he of just smooth called a set with two club board? I'm sure he's not scared of the straight but I don't see a slow play in this scenario with a set. If in the case he has AA or KK or QQ he surely wouldn't back down here.

The turn comes the Qc, leaving a flush on the board. I check, my opponent checks right behind me. Now I'm super confused? Does he have the nuts? Would he check the nuts after I show so much aggression. Am I just against a complete clueless donkey.

The river comes another Q. OOP, what's your play here? If I bet I'm risking a re raise. If I check and he bets, am I calling?

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

OK, Firstly don't play above your limits, either in bankroll or skill. You make several inferences that you're playing scared, and that leads to playing bad. That lecture aside, here's what I think of the hand:

Preflop you have to repop that every time. WRT the guy who flatted your 3bet I always refer to this as "calling dumb" cos I don't think there;s a single hand you can do it with profitably. I usually find someone doing that will have JJ/TT/KQs. AK almost always repops as it has NO value in playing it for a call whatsoever. If he hits the flop he gets no more money from an underpair, if he misses (which he does most of the time) then he has to fold by the turn. This all leads me to think he's a bit of an idiot. But he's an idiot with a very narrow range.

Flop. The T is bad news, but I still think you're ahead here, so bet-3bet is definitely the right play. He has no reason to cap the flop here as you've made it clear you may are going to bet the turn and he won't get a free card if drawing. And given that you're going to bet, he has no reason to cap you with a stronger hand as he risks tipping you off as to its strength.

Turn. Bit of a funny one, what does he raise the flop with that the Q improved? I really just don't believe the draw here. I think checking here is a huge mistake. The correct play imo is bet/fold to a raise. Checking gives him the chance to push you off the best hand with either A-hi or an underpair.

River. Given the action so far I think it's a check/call. A worse hand won't call you so there's no value in betting, but the worse hand may try to bluff you, so its worth letting the guy hang himself.

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

I just want to add a bit on about why I think bet/folding the turn is the optimal play, as a lot of people won't get it or will hate it. Look at our line so far. We've reraised preflop, reraised the flop and bet the turn (assuming you follow my logic and bet the turn). Now if that happened to you faced with that board, you would be thinking AA/KK. Now if you bet the turn and he raises, he;'s pretty much saying he can beat AA/KK, so I think its safe to assume he can beat JJ, thus you save your bets (OTT & OTR) and fold.However checking hands over the impetus to him, and he can try and force you out with a weaker hand.

doubledownA · Banned Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3323

I agree Fire with your advice. In fact I check call the river...and as far as playing worried, I can really only put the guy on a AcKc thus the check on the turn. As far as overplaying JJ preflop, that's your opinion vs mine. Given my position I'm not going to blow my wad with JJ.

As far as the hand, He had K K with no clubs. I did check river and call river to see what he had.

Riddim · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject:

doubledownA · Banned Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3323

I Didn't cold call, I re raised preplop and 3 bet it on the Turn. From there I still want to control pot size. I'm happy to check this hand down to the river (starting on turn).

Riddim · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject:

I was commenting on what I quoted. That's why I quoted it.

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