Online Poker Forum - Flopping two pair --- what to do?

IlkkaK · Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: Flopping two pair --- what to do?

Kind of a beginner question.

In pot limit Omaha (and Omaha/8), one of the more annoying situations for me is flopping two pair, with two cards on the flop pairing with two of your hole cards. With no possibility of making a straight or a flush, you are essentially drawing to four outs to a full house (or the unlikely quads with perfect-perfect, but ignore these). I know what to do with flopped two pair in Texas, but what should I do in pot-limit Omaha?

I can see how the flop texture would greatly affect the answer, but is the correct move here betting, and if so, how much? Is flopping two pair anything to celebrate in Omaha, at least if there are no obvious straight or flush draws so that you really fear somebody flopping a set? Of course, that one also depends on the flop in that, say, the flop is Q93 rainbow and you have Q3 in your hand, I don't think that you need to really fear someone having 99 in the hole.

sixandfour

Flying_Kiwi · Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject:

It depends on how many people to flop. This is a terribly weak hand in O8. I definetly wouldn't bet out and only call if you are getting odds to draw a full house. But remeber the pot is going to build on the turn and river. Normally I would dump a hand like this. Basically the only time I play 2 pair and no draw (other than full house) is if it is top two, it is heads up on the flop, and the pot looks to stay low and I suspect (and can try peg them on) some kind of draw. Playing two pair in Omaha is a very high risk move. Just remember the maxim - "Big pot = big hand, small pot = small hand." 2 pair in Omaha is about as small as they come.

IlkkaK · Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

sixandfour · Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Not many have q3 either.

First off, you can't assume that everyone that plays OL8 is as strategically sound as we are. Therefore, you expect a certain amount of limpers with mid pairs, middle connectors, etc. And God forbid if they're double sooooted!

muktuk2 · Flush Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 136 Location: belgium

2 pair will only get you in trouble in the long run. If the pot isn't heads up, get away from them as far as possible. If you play 2 pair consistently, you'll lose money.

In your example, you don't even have top 2. Chances are existant somebody is playing 9 10 J Q or something alike, or QQa2, which puts you in a great deal of trouble. A giant raise might get the first hand to fold, but the second will stick around, having top set (which btw is also a very dangerous hand in Omaha 8 in multiway pots).
The only excuse for playing top 2 is when you have a made low or low draw to accompanie it (both nut), or when you have redraws (to a straight or nut flush).

In general: stay away from two pair.

DJ Ninjah · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject:

Two pair can be played profitably, but I wouldn't try to until you are very comfortable with the game. Don't lead out in EP with less than a strong top two. Don't lead out in LP in a multiway pot if you have trappy players or call stations. You really have to have good hand reading skills to play it correctly. And if you get action back at you, fold it immediately.

STC_Die · Pair Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 50

If your playing limit you might want to consider reverse implied odds on top of everyone elses suggestions

There are two components to reverse implied odds:
1) If you are best, you are unlikely to get paid much
2) If you are worst, you are unlikly to catch up

Basically if your 2 pair is good then you will win the MIN amout (which means everyone else has complete CRAP)

but...if your 2 pair is no good, you would have lost the MAX amount (eg. to a draw)

larrybertleman · High Card Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 2

Because not very many playable Omaha/8 hands have a 99 in them, based on what I have read about starting hand selection.[/quote]

thats exactly why 99 is playable. A299 and A399 are two of my absolute favorites, since when the 9 hits the flop everyone assumes that there's no way that card helped anyone. A499 or 9910J are two other playable hands for the minimum preflop, especially with a suited A or double suited..... 2 pair is junk, especially if its not top 2. The backdoor possibilities (ie. runner, runner nut flush or nut lo) if you have them are something to think about. Are you in position, if so you can bet the flop and hopefully get 2 free cards and make something better than your junk hand. The real fear is the legit hand u may be up against on a 39Q flop. say your opponent has 10JKK or 910JQ or any of the other playable 4 hi card hands all 9 and above (Q93 is the flop they're looking for). Anything 9 or above turns you may be screwed. What i'm saying is if someone calls the best case senario is runner runner lo cards. what your hoping for to make a solid lo or backdoor flush. another hi card hit and you got junk..... one more thing when you ask a question you need to let everyone know all four of your cards, their suit, the color of the flop, your position and the number of people in the pot. say your doubled suited A23Q and you have 2 backdoor flushes with that as well as a backdoor lo. i'm not saying chasing backdoor draws is a good idea. your hope is to take it down with a flop bet. but backdoor draws payoff huge in PLO8... so your options are (1) bet if checked around to you in decent position (if someone calls behind you be very careful and step off the gas unless you develop a sick backdoor draw on turn (ie nut flush and nut lo). even if you fill up on turn slow down cuse all you can do is loose. any call or reraise you have to be beat) if you bet and get raised, get out. (2) just check and hope to develop a better draw on turn.

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