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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 9190
Location: Halifax, NS
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 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: hand critique please |
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just wondering if someone can tell me how badly i played this hand. i have played a bit of razz but i don't really play it regularly.
the only reads i had was that tonjai was a bit of a call station. the other two in the pot seemed to know what they were doing.
anyway TIA for comments.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1224738574: Table El Capitan - $0.25/$0.50 Ante $0.05 - Limit Razz - 14:26:36 ET - 2006/11/10
Seat 1: Harv72b ($17.30)
Seat 2: kidmaui ($5.90)
Seat 3: tonjai ($5.05)
Seat 4: Fealin ($12.05)
Seat 5: comvizet ($3.60)
Seat 6: Bad Beats 4 U ($13)
Seat 7: HuJwang ($10.80)
Seat 8: Pickard1977 ($15.60)
Bad Beats 4 U antes $0.05
HuJwang antes $0.05
comvizet antes $0.05
kidmaui antes $0.05
Harv72b antes $0.05
Pickard1977 antes $0.05
tonjai antes $0.05
Fealin antes $0.05
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to Harv72b [Ah]
Dealt to kidmaui [9d]
Dealt to tonjai [8s]
Dealt to Fealin [8h]
Dealt to comvizet [6c]
Dealt to Bad Beats 4 U [As]
Dealt to HuJwang [2h 3h] [Qh]
Dealt to Pickard1977 [4h]
HuJwang is high with [Qh]
HuJwang brings in for $0.10
Pickard1977 folds
Harv72b completes it to $0.25
kidmaui folds
tonjai calls $0.25
Fealin folds
comvizet folds
Bad Beats 4 U calls $0.25
HuJwang calls $0.15
i know the queen is ugly but with being the bringin and there being a fair number of people in the pot i decided to take a peek at 4th street.
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Harv72b [Ah] [6d]
Dealt to tonjai [8s] [Jc]
Dealt to Bad Beats 4 U [As] [6s]
Dealt to HuJwang [2h 3h Qh] [4c]
Harv72b bets $0.25
tonjai calls $0.25
Bad Beats 4 U calls $0.25
HuJwang calls $0.25
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Harv72b [Ah 6d] [Kc]
Dealt to tonjai [8s Jc] [7h]
Dealt to Bad Beats 4 U [As 6s] [Kd]
Dealt to HuJwang [2h 3h Qh 4c] [7s]
tonjai checks
Bad Beats 4 U bets $0.50
HuJwang raises to $1
Harv72b has 15 seconds left to act
Harv72b folds
tonjai calls $1
Bad Beats 4 U calls $0.50
my raise came from a tip i read in sklansky's theory of poker. he says that even if you have the 2nd best hand, you should re-raise in order to get rid of weaker hands, since you will be more likely to win heads up. i think this was a good place to use that strategy.
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to tonjai [8s Jc 7h] [3s]
Dealt to Bad Beats 4 U [As 6s Kd] [5c]
Dealt to HuJwang [2h 3h Qh 4c 7s] [Td]
tonjai checks
Bad Beats 4 U bets $0.50
HuJwang has 15 seconds left to act
HuJwang calls $0.50
tonjai calls $0.50
this is the only part of the hand that i feel pretty sure was a mistake. i am either drawing dead, or drawing very slim.
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to HuJwang [2h 3h Qh 4c 7s Td] [7d]
tonjai checks
Bad Beats 4 U bets $0.50
HuJwang folds
tonjai calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bad Beats 4 U shows [8d 3c As 6s Kd 5c 2d] (6,5,3,2,A)
tonjai mucks
Bad Beats 4 U wins the pot ($7.55) with 6,5,3,2,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.90 | Rake $0.35
Seat 1: Harv72b folded on 5th St.
Seat 2: kidmaui folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: tonjai mucked [Ts 4s 8s Jc 7h 3s 3d] - T,8,7,4,3
Seat 4: Fealin folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: comvizet folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: Bad Beats 4 U showed [8d 3c As 6s Kd 5c 2d] and won ($7.55) with 6,5,3,2,A
Seat 7: HuJwang folded on 7th St.
Seat 8: Pickard1977 folded on 3rd St.
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jbrennen
Straight Flush
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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The third street call is questionable; I would have folded it without a second thought myself. However, it's also not a horrible play, because you know that you can see fourth street for only 0.15, giving you better than 8-to-1 pot odds to look at the next card.
(Note that Bad Beats 4 U made a huge mistake on 4th street by not reraising. That's why I fold the Queen door card on 3rd street, because if two good Razz players both catch low on 4th street, I expect them to jam the pot on 4th street. Harv72b and Bad Beats 4 U should have driven you and tonjai out on 4th street, or at least made you pay a lot to see the next card.)
The call on fourth street -- okay I guess, seeing as how it's again giving you some 8-to-1 pot odds and you're once again last to act. But a lot of the cards that you need are dead... Two Aces and three 6s are already out. Because of this, a fold could be justified as well.
On fifth street, you're in decent shape. But you only have 7 outs (twice) to make a 7 low hand (or better), out of 32 unseen cards. Your chance to make a 7 low is less than 40%. If you make an 8 low, it will be very rough, so I think you're really aiming for a 7 low. Because of all the dead cards, and being less than 40% to actually make a decent hand, I'd call here rather than raising. I don't think this is a great place for the "Sklansky reraise" -- it's not at all obvious that your hand is second best here.
On sixth street, I would have called as well. If Bad Beats 4 U has you drawing dead at this point, he really should have three-bet on 5th street (although maybe that's giving him too much credit for knowing the right play). I figure him for a 7-6 at best, and you still have 6 outs out of 29 cards to make a 7 low yourself, so easy pot odds to see 7th street. I wouldn't worry at all about a C/R from tonjai, no way he pulls that here if his best possible made hand is an 8-7.
Seventh street I probably would have called. You're getting about 14-to-1 odds on your money to see if Bad Beats 4 U is bluffing. Usually he has you beat, but if you catch him bluffing even 7 or 8 percent of the time, it's +EV to call. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 9190
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| jbrennen wrote: |
The third street call is questionable; I would have folded it without a second thought myself. However, it's also not a horrible play, because you know that you can see fourth street for only 0.15, giving you better than 8-to-1 pot odds to look at the next card.
(Note that Bad Beats 4 U made a huge mistake on 4th street by not reraising. That's why I fold the Queen door card on 3rd street, because if two good Razz players both catch low on 4th street, I expect them to jam the pot on 4th street. Harv72b and Bad Beats 4 U should have driven you and tonjai out on 4th street, or at least made you pay a lot to see the next card.)
The call on fourth street -- okay I guess, seeing as how it's again giving you some 8-to-1 pot odds and you're once again last to act. But a lot of the cards that you need are dead... Two Aces and three 6s are already out. Because of this, a fold could be justified as well.
On fifth street, you're in decent shape. But you only have 7 outs (twice) to make a 7 low hand (or better), out of 32 unseen cards. Your chance to make a 7 low is less than 40%. If you make an 8 low, it will be very rough, so I think you're really aiming for a 7 low. Because of all the dead cards, and being less than 40% to actually make a decent hand, I'd call here rather than raising. I don't think this is a great place for the "Sklansky reraise" -- it's not at all obvious that your hand is second best here.
On sixth street, I would have called as well. If Bad Beats 4 U has you drawing dead at this point, he really should have three-bet on 5th street (although maybe that's giving him too much credit for knowing the right play). I figure him for a 7-6 at best, and you still have 6 outs out of 29 cards to make a 7 low yourself, so easy pot odds to see 7th street. I wouldn't worry at all about a C/R from tonjai, no way he pulls that here if his best possible made hand is an 8-7.
Seventh street I probably would have called. You're getting about 14-to-1 odds on your money to see if Bad Beats 4 U is bluffing. Usually he has you beat, but if you catch him bluffing even 7 or 8 percent of the time, it's +EV to call. |
thanks for the advice.
i certainly learned my lesson about folding on the river; i think Bad Beats picked up on that in this hand. not too long after the above hand i was in a heads up pot against him. i drew to to a 10 high on the river, but he had four cards to a 9 showing. i folded when i was getting about 10:1 odds to call, and he decided to show his paired hole cards leaving him with a K high. i felt a little stupid after that one. |
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FsuBostonMike
Pair
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldnt have played this hand past 3rd, but once you comitted the hand doesnt look all that bad from then on out...still I wouldnt have had a chance to see past 3rd, I woulda folded it |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1770
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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well I know that bad beats 4 U is one of the worst players on this site so I know her strategy.
3rd I would fold however you getting in cheap so why not pay .15$ to see a free card.
On 4th I might consider folding here also because I am scared of their boards. but you are still getting amazing odds to stay so you could argue that you may stay.
On 5th. I believe you are behind and should fold here from my own theory of relevant cards
Im putting one of them on a hand like 652a 6532 with a king of course.
You have 23Q47.
What the theory means is by taking only the relevant cards (the low ones), he has a 6 low draw and you have a 7 low draw, so if he hits, he has a better hand then if you hit so I predict you are behind right here and should have fold.
If I was sitting watching this hand I would call you a donk, and Im very pissed off that you insult the game I love by playing the game I love this badly. |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1770
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| just playing with you Huj |
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