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Tracer-Round T
Pair
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: Kentucky, U.S.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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[quote="spike420211"][quote="Tracer-Round T"]
I'm assuming, by your signature, that you are implying America and the entire coalition entered Iraq via false reports, misleading evidence, and under a veil of smoke with fingers pointing one way, but the true plan calling for an alternate, most likley that you are assuming oil..?
For anyone to say, today, that it was a mistake to enter Iraq is, atLEAST, feutile in theory, and fruitless in action. The days of scrutinizing the reasoning behind/for involvment, entry plan, and initial course of action, are, for now, behind us...put up on a shelf, if u will...The general public's main focus now should be "Ok, no changin' it now, we're in country, boots on ground... Let's get behind the troops, and finish this war, these wars!
To withdraw troops now would be a blunder the likes of which most cannot even comprehend.
Question: with American troops spread so thinly between Afghanistan and Iraq, Al-Quida's change in focus towards strengthening forces in northwestern Pakistan, a possible future major armed conflict with Iran,
the long-standing abhorrence to re-instating the draft...
[we'd rather send all those stupid kids to college, and we can't print enough money to pay them anywayz...]
At what point does it become pointless-or even suicidal- for US troops to stay any longer?
Let it be known, Human kind is still operating off of the same fear, hate, love, jealousy, greed, and compassion as it has for centuries... Of all the advances in technology, culture, language, and religion... We haven't one new emotion. That said, had we not gone into Iraq, and were boy-cotted crude oil, our gasoline rocketed to $12.00 ,and higher, a gallon, you would be ok with that, I assume...?? Not I!
What is done is done, of course. A lot of us feel that alleged behind-the-scenes activity leading up to all this was meant to BOLSTER the price of gasoline.
Meaning, I agree with you, oil was a priority in this war, however not the main focus, as many claim.
Our main focus is the regeneation of a nation, the build up of their infastructure, to include their oil industry, thus developing a new, strong, ally in the middle east.
We're not there- is this still possible?
From what we get in the media in the US, I'm not sure.
Well, to answer your question, Spike, about the U.S. being spread too thin... I will answer it simply...We are not, sir. Mind you, we have a professional military. Meaning many of us are lifers. This is what we do, and we do it well. For it to be deemed "suicidal" at any juncture in these wars is to denounce the proficiency of America's armed professionals. Spike, Im not saying you denounce us in any form, very much the opposite. Im just saying, the day in which suicide goes hand in hand with a war I fight in...well, thats the day I turn my back on America. Yes... deployments may lengthen, yes... Time for us to be home may be shortened, yes... men will die. THATS ON US, It's what we do. However, never are we spread too thin. There are measures in place to prevent this... Though, if the day ever comes... and the Wolves of the world are at our backdoor... Many men, myself included will stand alone, shoulder to shoulder, and heave our souls into the pit of whatever fight they bring. Of this, I can assure you.
As for the draft... This again undermines the ideals of a professional military. We are all volunteer. thus, from grunt stand points, we endure the discomfort with a smile. For all the times I've been tired, cold, hot, injured, emotionally drained, and physically ill. I have been happy. This goes the same for all my boys. To bring conscripts in and amongst our ranks would be catastrophic. Hindering rather than helping.
Furthermore, I've thought many times, had many barracks meetings over this, and I have come to the conclusion that many Americans don't want to know, TRULY, what is goin on over there. Yes, in times of need the military is called upon to go, come back, and disappear. They sent me at the age of 19. I walked off a plane after 17 months to a crowd that smelled of burger king. We got a pat on the back, a few got laid, a few got divorced, yet we all were in a daze. We didnt wanna talk... We just wanted someone to WANT us to talk, sincerely and candidly. We just wanted the gesture of it. Instead, we were pushed to the fringes of society. noone wants to hear, truly, how a 5.56 round at point blank is still rifling, thus pierces straight thru a man, with litlle effect. The round doesnt reach full velocity, and start to tumble for about 100 meters. thus, we would aim for the eyes. Dont wanna hear about how hard it is pull skull fragements out of a boot sole, dont wanna hear about what the men would do to their women. Instead, they ask "Sure was cold over there, huh?" "Sure was a long way from home, huh?" "Bet you were scared, huh?" Then , they stick as many dam stickers on their gas hog SUV's that say "support the troops" "freedom isn't free" thinking to themselves..."Im patriotic, i have the sticker to prove it." these people wait in the middle of the lane in a parking lot, for a car to back out, just so they can save themselves from walking 10 extra feet!! They think it's sooo cold in winter walking from their car to the store. However, they know its warm anywhere they end up. So, they're not truly cold. They are discomforted for mere seconds. COLD, is living in the mountains for months, nowhere to escape the cold. So cold, with such lil oxygen ,your lungs start cracking...you start coughing up blood. Snot freezez to ur face as u try and sleep, then u have to wake up, go on security and peel the snot, thus skin, off ur lips just so u can talk.
GZZZZZZZ! Sorry, Spike. i just got a lil worked up is all and went on a rant. This was not aimed at you, Im just gettin it off my chest. You do have valid points, and it's unlikley we will ever agree completely, but that's the beauty of it all, right? Have a good one, sir.
What Im getting at in that main paragraph about people not really wantin to know, and the cold parking lot bit is this... yes, I America is great and most do support the troops, and we appreciate that!! we really do, but the public gets on my nerves so bad when they talk of BRING EM HOME!! I dont wanna be home. I wanna finish what was started, I dont wanna leave a crippled country. I wanna stay... I would rather go back 2mro, and die at the age of 23, on foreign soil, than die at 93 here stateside in a hospital bed. PERIOD. Let us finish! Oh, and dont re-elect Obama. that' last part about The President is from about 97% of the military.
Good day to all.
-Tracer |
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spike420211
Forum Yoda
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 3559
Location: Pennsylvania, where poker becomes legal next spring![allegedly]
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tracer-Round T wrote: |
Well, to answer your question, Spike, about the U.S. being spread too thin... I will answer it simply...We are not, sir. Mind you, we have a professional military. Meaning many of us are lifers. This is what we do, and we do it well. For it to be deemed "suicidal" at any juncture in these wars is to denounce the proficiency of America's armed professionals. Spike, Im not saying you denounce us in any form, very much the opposite. Im just saying, the day in which suicide goes hand in hand with a war I fight in...well, thats the day I turn my back on America. Yes... deployments may lengthen, yes... Time for us to be home may be shortened, yes... men will die. THATS ON US, It's what we do. However, never are we spread too thin. There are measures in place to prevent this... Though, if the day ever comes... and the Wolves of the world are at our backdoor... Many men, myself included will stand alone, shoulder to shoulder, and heave our souls into the pit of whatever fight they bring. Of this, I can assure you.
I kinda went by my reference from my air force days, when they started the all-volunteer concept... towards the end of the cold war, when they told us during chem-war training [after they stuck my a$$ in a tear gas chamber, and my eyes burnt for 2 days] that if the Soviet Union were to rumble tanks and MiGs thru West Germany, that there wouldn'r be enuf gas masks to go around. We were in MAC rescue, hell, THE FRIGGIN' BULLETS WOULDA BEEN ON BACKORDER... we felt rather ill-prepared in those days 
As for the draft... This again undermines the ideals of a professional military. We are all volunteer. thus, from grunt stand points, we endure the discomfort with a smile. For all the times I've been tired, cold, hot, injured, emotionally drained, and physically ill. I have been happy. This goes the same for all my boys. To bring conscripts in and amongst our ranks would be catastrophic. Hindering rather than helping.
I honestly hope this doesn't happen either. The guyz they sent to walk point in 'nam, unless they were Green Berets or Deltas, were busted for drugs while in 'nam and got volunteered. I've always hoped we learned something from this.
Furthermore, I've thought many times, had many barracks meetings over this, and I have come to the conclusion that many Americans don't want to know, TRULY, what is goin on over there. Yes, in times of need the military is called upon to go, come back, and disappear. They sent me at the age of 19. I walked off a plane after 17 months to a crowd that smelled of burger king. We got a pat on the back, a few got laid, a few got divorced, yet we all were in a daze. We didnt wanna talk... We just wanted someone to WANT us to talk, sincerely and candidly. We just wanted the gesture of it. Instead, we were pushed to the fringes of society. noone wants to hear, truly, how a 5.56 round at point blank is still rifling, thus pierces straight thru a man, with litlle effect. The round doesnt reach full velocity, and start to tumble for about 100 meters. thus, we would aim for the eyes. Dont wanna hear about how hard it is pull skull fragements out of a boot sole, dont wanna hear about what the men would do to their women. Instead, they ask "Sure was cold over there, huh?" "Sure was a long way from home, huh?" "Bet you were scared, huh?" Then , they stick as many dam stickers on their gas hog SUV's that say "support the troops" "freedom isn't free" thinking to themselves..."Im patriotic, i have the sticker to prove it." these people wait in the middle of the lane in a parking lot, for a car to back out, just so they can save themselves from walking 10 extra feet!! They think it's sooo cold in winter walking from their car to the store. However, they know its warm anywhere they end up. So, they're not truly cold. They are discomforted for mere seconds. COLD, is living in the mountains for months, nowhere to escape the cold. So cold, with such lil oxygen ,your lungs start cracking...you start coughing up blood. Snot freezez to ur face as u try and sleep, then u have to wake up, go on security and peel the snot, thus skin, off ur lips just so u can talk.
I've dealt with the snot-freezing part personally, riding my mtn. bike 2 work in PA. But yeah bro, [color=red]we wanna know. I met too many 'nam vets that were my fellow street tramps... some of the most disenfranchised poor souls I've ever met. And I know how the men treat the women. Some of them came to America, to Silicon Valley, and treated their women the same way HERE... and then wonder why they're in jail.[/color]
GZZZZZZZ! Sorry, Spike. i just got a lil worked up is all and went on a rant. This was not aimed at you, Im just gettin it off my chest. You do have valid points, and it's unlikley we will ever agree completely, but that's the beauty of it all, right? Have a good one, sir.
Apology not necessary.
What Im getting at in that main paragraph about people not really wantin to know, and the cold parking lot bit is this... yes, I America is great and most do support the troops, and we appreciate that!! we really do, but the public gets on my nerves so bad when they talk of BRING EM HOME!! I dont wanna be home. I wanna finish what was started, I dont wanna leave a crippled country. I wanna stay... I would rather go back 2mro, and die at the age of 23, on foreign soil, than die at 93 here stateside in a hospital bed. PERIOD. Let us finish! Oh, and dont re-elect Obama. that' last part about The President is from about 97% of the military.
ain't gonna happen. You've seen the hole we're in domestically.
[btw... i was awarded my SSI during the Bush administration, if that helps u sleep at night.]
But I stil feel McCain woulda been just as bad if not worse.
Good day to all.
-Tracer |
Tracer,
I know u got a lot on ur mind, but...
in recent barracks meetings, has there been ANY MENTION of Pakistan's ability [or lack thereof] to guard their friggin' nukes? |
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Tracer-Round T
Pair
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: Kentucky, U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Spike,
I very much believe that we learned from Nam. also, to date, not saying it wont happen, i have yet to feel ill prepared for any of the tasks assigned to me. It just hasn't happened, and I have supreme confidence in the leadership of our nations military in respects to providing the required dope needed to fulfill all tasks set before us.
As for gas masks, Every soldier is issued one these days, and in many places in country, those mask are a required part of the uniform. We are more prepared than we were in Vietnam. For those lessons learned there, I am grateful to u and all who served there.
Correct, the Infantry Corps now and the Infantry Corps in 'Nam are at most...3rd cousins, twice removed in relation. For the draft to come back into effect...WOW, all I have to say bout that...
Yes, I've seen, and continue to overlook the growing domestic issues. However, i learned a while back, from someone much wiser than I, that for me to function in the most efficient manner possible... I mustn't cloud an already fogged mind with domestic downfalls. It's not my place anymore, Im contracted under oath to uphold all policy, agreeable by me or not, that is set forth by our Government. HOWEVER, Upon my release from the military, bet ur azz im gonna be in the middle of all that I can!! That time isn't now though, I go and do what is delegated by you and all other Americans. Glad to do it. more happy when I get the chance to have a hand in fixing these problems we face though. Until then, I'll just sit on the political sideline...with my hands on my hips... shaking my head in sorrow and disgust.
As always, valid points and comments by you, and I thoroughly enjoy talkin to ya.
-Tracer |
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missjugsalot
Conservative Bomber
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2064
Location: undisclosed
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Today, I saw the funeral procession for this fine young American from my community.
Lance Cpl. David R. Baker, 22, a 2006 graduate of Riverside High School has made the greatest sacrifice for his country. Burial will be in Arlington National Cemetery in Arlington, Va.
The Pentagon says David was killed Tuesday by an improvised explosive device while on foot patrol in Afghanistan’s volatile Helmand province, one of the front lines against the Taliban. It was his first tour in Afghanistan. David was scheduled to return home Nov. 29.
Semper Fi. |
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GODZ
Four of a Kind
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
Location: Kent Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe these young hero's will have a chance to get home ,now that the war lovers are out of office.
Please ,watch all the news not just MSNBC not just CNN and for the love of that invisible man in the sky that the far right loves to talk about ,not just FOX sorta news.The truth is out there and you won't get it by listening to Glenn Beck miss quote some of the greatest thinkers of all time. |
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missjugsalot
Conservative Bomber
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2064
Location: undisclosed
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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I prefer that they kill our enemies with extreme prejudice, and then come home, lest their sacrifices be in vain.
Now that the "war lovers" are out of office, the pussiez are free to appease our enemies, and guarantee their survival. |
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GODZ
Four of a Kind
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 263
Location: Kent Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Having a dialog and an open conversation about our problems is not being a puzzy, it's being smart .To cut off all communication with your enemies will get you nothing.If JFK thought like you, we would have had a nuclear war. Instead of being remembered as the Cuban missile crisis,it would be remembered as the day the country was ruined .
The old saying ,(keep your friends close and your enemies closer) didn't just come out of thin air .
You can't just blow everyone away that you disagree with .Given enough rope most of our enemies will hang themselves.
After 8 years of this azz backward thinking you should realize that it doesn't work. |
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Tracer-Round T
Pair
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: Kentucky, U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 am Post subject: |
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How do any of you feel about of President Obama's Medical plan?
Just curious.
-Tracer |
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missjugsalot
Conservative Bomber
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2064
Location: undisclosed
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Tracer-Round T wrote: |
How do any of you feel about of President Obama's Medical plan?
Just curious.
-Tracer |
I have stated my opinion at great length, just need to go back 10 or so pages, but Ill summarize;
Obama's so called "health care reform," is actually a disguised effort to "remake America" by changing the relationship between the citizen and its govt. As founded, in America, the politicians are elected to represent the will of the people. They work for us. Obamas govt takeover of health care, which is 1/6th of our economy, will give govt the power to regulate the citizens behavior, based on the cost impact of related health care. In other words, smoking, overweight, risky behavior, etc. will all be regulated based on the fact that they potentially add to medical costs. They move it from they work for us, to we are beholden to them for our very lives. Just as they would have us addicted to their other various handouts, relying on them for everything. Relying on them taking from those who produce, and giving it to those who do not. Our govt has overstepped its bounds over and over, its time for us to say no more, not one more inch!
It is simply the seizing of our freedom, against our will. Americans are are overwhelmingly against obamacare, and they have made that quite clear, let they are going ahead with it anyway. Our "representatives" are not representing us anymore. They want power, and they will not let a stupid little thing like the will of the people get in the way of something progressives have dreamed of for 100 years. Nancy Pelosi has said as much. They want to change our country into the socialist utopia they think will be so much better.
If one looks into the history of the schemes they are pushing on us, not only can you find no example of success, you will usually find massive failure. Are we so foolish as to not learn from history due to our ignorance of it, or are we just going to do the same thing that doesnt work, expecting a different result?
Are we ignorant, insane, or just fat and stupid?
Republican senator Jim DeMint was heavily criticized for calling this battle "Obama's Waterloo." He couldn't have been more correct, and we must understand, Obama and the dems must not lose, they will fight to the last man, and they will use suicide bombers if necessary. Nancy Pelosi is asking the "blue dogs" to vote yes and thereby guarantee they wont be re elected, blowing themselves up as it were, yet she will be safe back in the cave. The really expensive, taxpayer funded cave, but you get the point. Failure is not an option for them, this is just too important. |
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feihua
Omnikarmic Wheee Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 3333
Location: Fukuoka >>> Austin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: |
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No doubt there are those who will scream how much the current health care state helps the economy of the United States, and that to change it would be to invite socialism that will destroy the country.
Yet, these same arguments wouldn't work if one looked at the school system that is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the military which is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the highway system which is socialistic.
Odd how things like the highways and the military and schools have been the most successful when operated as socialistic.
Odd how those three items not only did not destroy the country but actually made it among the strongest on the globe. |
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feihua
Omnikarmic Wheee Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 3333
Location: Fukuoka >>> Austin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |
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I have taken the blinders regarding juggs off today out of boredom.
Bottom line: juggs has no problem lying and is a great projector of his/her own faults.
Example:
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| Our resident socialist leech, feihua, mocked me, and offered to bet his BR(thats like 20 bucks) that the republic would be fine. |
What actually happened is that juggs was dead certain Obama was going to lose and I asked if he/she wanted to back that up with some tittymoney.
I am not certain I can recall it perfectly (I am certain it is difficult for juggs to recall anything accurately), but it was juggs who limited the bet (rather than the allusion to my BR) to $20.
And the bet was for who would win.
It is disingenuous for juggs to suggest the bet was that the republic would be fine, because juggs never would have paid off the bet so easily.
So when one feels like they can be comfortable going with juggs' line of thinking.....pay attention to how carefully he/she likes to word things: he/she doesn't pay enough attention and could use the help.
Further evidence:
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| These socialist elites are currently in the process of shoving their fascist takeover of our health care system down our throats, against the will of the people. A majority of Americans have made it quite clear they dont want them to take it over |
Skip to the part where he/she attempts to explain how a minority of the public voted the current government into office.
Stop looking. She can't explain that.
She can explain how the majority does indeed vote the government into office and then she will explain how most of the country is against those who voted the government into office.
Make sense?
Not to me, either.
Boredom finished. Blinders on standby.
I have to see if juggs wants her/his money back for paying me off upon her/his agreement (not mine) that
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| ....the republic would be fine. |
As for the health care question.......I am skeptical if it is 1/6th of the economy because I have to consider the self-claimed source.
However, this is a result of the Nixon Administration which put health care into the sham state as it exists today.
It is very doubtful it was anywhere close to 1/6th of the economy prior to the Nixon Administration.
The accusations that social health care will force the government to make demands on attitudes of living are more of the same the-sky-is-falling talk.
Living in a country where health care is socialized, the people live longer than any other country on the face of the planet, there are no regulations regarding behaviors regarding such activities as smoking NOR are there any situations of pre-existing conditions making insurance impossible to receive although paid for.
There are no regulations demanding that treatment must be received at a designated site nor that treatment must be received at a designated time.
The waiting time for simply showing up and requesting treatment averages much less than 15 minutes.
A patient's medical history can be released and forwarded to a preferred location in seconds.
The problem with health care in the US isn't because of Obama and it will not become worse because of Obama. And if the public was so friggin' strong as juggs suggests, then according to juggs' line of thinking, a better plan would be suggested and implemented. But that ain't happening.
What is happening is an attempt to correct the current state of health care in the US so it is better than what it has been since the Nixon Administration's decision to redesign health care in the US for the protection of capitalism.
Anything will be better.
Nothing will ever top the success of socialized health care in Japan and Europe and Canada until the government of the US has the guts to use those locales as models despite the-sky-is-falling rhetoric.
Juggs has no solution to the rotten state of health care in the United States. Juggs has complaints on top of complaints and cannot isolate his/her opinions to the topic because of the need and the urgency to clutter the topic with his/her questionable agenda......speaking loudly and carrying a big dick.
A bunch of LOL hysterical whining.
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| The original intent of this thread was to make fun of Obama |
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| feihua, mocked me |
You started the thread with a chip on your shoulder.
And you attempted to pass it off as an epaulet when it was nothing but a chip.
Pay for your highways, pay for your schools, pay for your military. Not like your commander-in-chief is wanting you to pay for health care, but according to how you demand health care to be handled. And have your highways, your schools and your military be handled likewise in the health care system you inadvertently proclaim to support as being successful.
It doesn't matter if it is not successful because you can always blame those you hate.
Juggs, your concept of freedom is 50 years old and you have never taken the time outside of the United States, nor investigated the other nations of the world to understand the level of freedom that exists elsewhere in the world.
You do not live in the freest country in the world. And you need to loosen up your game a bit.
Health care in the United States is horrible and has been horrible for a long time.
Crime in the United States is horrible and has been horrible for a long time.
The United States appears to be constantly involved in wars whereas a number of other successful nations continue to not be involved.
You make a claim that health care is 1/6 of the economy. What was the automotive industry's share? What does that leave? How great of a state is it in? Has all of this failed in a mere 12 months?!?
What on Earth are you really trying to protect as you inject your mocking of the President with your agenda?
Is it just your right to put on an aura of being a bully, a loud talker?
Because what you are constantly yammering about, the stuff that needs protection, is indeed in a horrible state, and has been in a horrible state for over a decade, if not more.
Because you provide no solutions, must one take the position that you are fine if the government takes no action?!?
Is killing people your solution?
"pussiezs" "be a man" This is all too easy talk for someone who doesn't possess enough of a brain to actually come up with a solution to present.....to even suggest.
If you could write something without giving the world your take on the history of the United States, without resorting to blaming another person by name, without mentioning an enemy of the United States, it would be interesting to see if you really had a grasp on what was going on in the nation of the United States as well as the rest of the world.
But you cannot post without resorting to blaming another person, without mentioning an enemy of the United States, without complaining about another's opinion and now, of all things, you gotta prove to the readers of this thread that you studied history long, long ago, over and over. Over and over and over and over.
We get it. We knew it without you having to add anything.
I have no idea what you are offering in exchange for our opinions.
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| The original intent of this thread was to make fun of Obama |
And you turned it into a terrible defense of the nation. A terrible, terrible defense.
Question: what on Earth is preventing you from re-inlisting?
Conservative advice: If you don't like the country you are living in, go to one you do like. Think of it as just another job, or a school, or a doctor. You'll do fine, I am sure.
EDIT: Anyone who wants to see who is twisting things and/or representing things accurately, read the below quote again and then check the link:
| missjugsalot wrote: |
| Our resident socialist leech, feihua, mocked me, and offered to bet his BR(thats like 20 bucks) that the republic would be fine. |
http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/obamaments-t62983-2105.html |
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alex j beeson
Luckbox Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 2542
Location: On the highway to hell
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| feihua wrote: |
Yet, these same arguments wouldn't work if one looked at the school system that is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the military which is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the highway system which is socialistic.
Odd how things like the highways and the military and schools have been the most successful when operated as socialistic.
Odd how those three items not only did not destroy the country but actually made it among the strongest on the globe. |
The PUBLIC school system in the US is on a downward spiral. The inner city schools especially are hit the hardest. There is never enough money, they aren't funded enough (since there isn't enough money).
In tough times the schools take the hit first. Saying that the US public school system is some model of socialist utopia or success is laughable.
The Highways are falling apart. Look at the recent bridge collapses. The highway funds are constantly diverted and rife with corruption, ineptitude and fraud.
The military you seem to claim is socialist. It is totalitarian as it should be. The thing you have to remember is that every single soldier in the military CHOOSES to be there. So it is with socialism, it can only work if every single person choses to participate. Then the rigid form of the military is backed up by harsh punishment if needed under the UCMJ, which is quite seperate from civil law. There is no jury of your peers in the military, and to move the country as a whole to the same as the military would mean scrapping the Constitution.
You are just deranged, the schools are falling apart, the federal highway funds are used by the Central Government to keep the States in line, and 75% of enlistment aged citizens of the US are are too fat, too lazy or are crimminals that exclude them from being able to even join the military.
What made the US the strongest is the individuals working to benefit themselves and their families by innovating and developing their own given talents to marketable use. If everybody did what was best for themselves and their families at all times we would find almost all of our problems would just go away.
Socialism just breeds fraud, abuse, corruption and inefficiency.
The best way for a country's citizens to thrive (and be loyal) is to guarantee their right to keep their possessions. This includes your wages (as well as your life) for your hard work and sweat. The fruit of your labors are yours that you worked for and to have them taken away, to be put in a type of general fund to be divided up among the people makes one wonder why they work so hard.
The sad reality is, in most cases, if we were to be honest, people find themselves in bad binds in life due to their own decisions they made previously. Be it drug users, drinkers, people who spent all their money and never saved or prepared for the future, it then falls to those who DID do all the right things in life to bail them out.
The health care bill. This fact above all others is-
The Federal Government will compel the individual to require health insurance of the type the Government deems adequate under penalty of fine and imprisonment. Not in any part of the Constitution does it give the Federal Government the power to enact such measures upon the people.
Now, I am the type when told "Alex, you HAVE to do such and such", my immediate reaction is "Oh? Really? I have to huh? Well, I suppose you can try and force me if you wish, but I think I will decide for myself what I have to do thank you very much. Now piss off." I am not a big fan of being forced to do anything by anyone. Nor would I advocate telling anyone else what the can or cannot do. |
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alex j beeson
Luckbox Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 2542
Location: On the highway to hell
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Oh, and BTW, before any of you go and say "Alex, you are pulling that 75% of enlistment aged citizens are unfit for duty in the military out our you azz", you can read this-
http://www.sphere.com/2009/11/03/70-percent-of-young-americans-are-unfit-for-military-duty/
Here is the beginning of the article-
The latest statistics from the Army reveal that 75 percent of military-age youth are ineligible to join because they are overweight, have dropped out of high school or had run-ins with the law. Dozens of alarmed former military officials have formed a group to try to improve the physical and moral fitness of children around the country
Now, socialism requires that people, every person, gives to the whole more than they consume so to speak. Would any disagree with that?
Now, when 75% of the young people are not in proper physical condition, or unable to graduate high school, or can't keep out of trouble with the law;
How confident are you in thinking that under a socialist system of any kind will bring results that will make things better if so many can't even keep their own lives straight?
These are the people that will suck up all the resources and not work for any of it. These are the people who will game the system, take advantage. And once people start taking advantage of a system that system starts breaking down quickly.
How can people think that this Central Government can be trusted with anything as important as your health care?
How can the Pelosi's and the Reed's and the Obama's be trusted?
How can people be so foolish as to pin all their hopes to these people instead of figuring out for themselves how to make it through life?
These Government people will promise you anything. Delivering on those promises are another matter all together. |
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hghlndr6
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| alex j beeson wrote: |
| feihua wrote: |
Yet, these same arguments wouldn't work if one looked at the school system that is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the military which is socialistic nor would these arguments work if one looked at the highway system which is socialistic.
Odd how things like the highways and the military and schools have been the most successful when operated as socialistic.
Odd how those three items not only did not destroy the country but actually made it among the strongest on the globe. |
The PUBLIC school system in the US is on a downward spiral. The inner city schools especially are hit the hardest. There is never enough money, they aren't funded enough (since there isn't enough money).
In tough times the schools take the hit first. Saying that the US public school system is some model of socialist utopia or success is laughable.
The Highways are falling apart. Look at the recent bridge collapses. The highway funds are constantly diverted and rife with corruption, ineptitude and fraud.
The military you seem to claim is socialist. It is totalitarian as it should be. The thing you have to remember is that every single soldier in the military CHOOSES to be there. So it is with socialism, it can only work if every single person choses to participate. Then the rigid form of the military is backed up by harsh punishment if needed under the UCMJ, which is quite seperate from civil law. There is no jury of your peers in the military, and to move the country as a whole to the same as the military would mean scrapping the Constitution.
You are just deranged, the schools are falling apart, the federal highway funds are used by the Central Government to keep the States in line, and 75% of enlistment aged citizens of the US are are too fat, too lazy or are crimminals that exclude them from being able to even join the military.
What made the US the strongest is the individuals working to benefit themselves and their families by innovating and developing their own given talents to marketable use. If everybody did what was best for themselves and their families at all times we would find almost all of our problems would just go away.
Socialism just breeds fraud, abuse, corruption and inefficiency.
The best way for a country's citizens to thrive (and be loyal) is to guarantee their right to keep their possessions. This includes your wages (as well as your life) for your hard work and sweat. The fruit of your labors are yours that you worked for and to have them taken away, to be put in a type of general fund to be divided up among the people makes one wonder why they work so hard.
The sad reality is, in most cases, if we were to be honest, people find themselves in bad binds in life due to their own decisions they made previously. Be it drug users, drinkers, people who spent all their money and never saved or prepared for the future, it then falls to those who DID do all the right things in life to bail them out.
The health care bill. This fact above all others is-
The Federal Government will compel the individual to require health insurance of the type the Government deems adequate under penalty of fine and imprisonment. Not in any part of the Constitution does it give the Federal Government the power to enact such measures upon the people.
Now, I am the type when told "Alex, you HAVE to do such and such", my immediate reaction is "Oh? Really? I have to huh? Well, I suppose you can try and force me if you wish, but I think I will decide for myself what I have to do thank you very much. Now piss off." I am not a big fan of being forced to do anything by anyone. Nor would I advocate telling anyone else what the can or cannot do. |
Agree with every word here. |
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hghlndr6
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2221
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| alex j beeson wrote: |
The latest statistics from the Army reveal that 75 percent of military-age youth are ineligible to join because they are overweight, have dropped out of high school or had run-ins with the law. Dozens of alarmed former military officials have formed a group to try to improve the physical and moral fitness of children around the country
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Bring back the draft?
40-some years ago, overweight, and otherwise out-of-shape draftees were in better shape after 8 weeks BCT and even better shape after AIT if their MOS required it. They had no choice.
Run-in with the law? LOL ... My BCT company in '66 was mostly from NYC and Chicago and many were there as an alternative to jail. It worked. |
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