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TheWhitePersian
High Card
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: I Am Losing At Fixed Limit Micro Stakes |
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I am confused and frustrated. I read about Sklansky, pot odds, the importance of position and jumped into fixed limit .05/.10 tables with max of six players because a beginner should start at the lowest tables and move up gradually. What the h@ll? They bet anything... Preflop raising from any position with a pair of 2s. Calling to the showdown with 34 offsuit and a flop of KQT. I saw it today. They reraise on the turn with nothing in their hands. I even saw one person bet on the river and at showdown, his best hand was the board. He wasn't even on a flush or straight draw. WHAT THE F^&%?
The bad thing is, I am the one losing!
If I play tight using Skalnsky hands and correct position, I end up folding at least five hands for every one that I play. When I finally bet, everyone folds because they know I must have something or one person calls to the showdown and beats me on the river. All the folding causes the blinds to chip away at my bankroll. I never get enough good hands to do anything with and the few times I win it just replaces SOME of the loses.
How do I win at this level? |
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quick98ta
Four of a Kind
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 295
Location: Playing a "Rigged" game and beating it.
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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First you need to play more hands when playing 6 handed. I haven t read skalnsky but im gunna take a guess and say his hand sugestions are for full ring 9+ players. I would suggest palying the 9 person tables if you are trying to play a tighter style.
Second the rake might be very dificult to overcome at .05/.10 limit if u get rakeback u should be all right if not its something to consider.
Finaly stritforward play is usually what is suggest at lower limits dont get to caught up with trying to check raise all the time when u flop a set and things like this. |
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stenrick
Forum Ornithologist
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 1193
Location: I have no idea...but I'll let you know when I do.
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Just wait until you have a big hand, catch the flop, and they suck out on the river. Then you'll really be ranting. You just have to keep plugging away at it though. The short run sucks, but if you play long enough, it'll balance out and then turn in your favor. Not to mention, the more hands you play, the more you get a feel for the table, and the better you can exploit their game.
Out of curiosity, which Sklansky book are you mainly referring to when you play? |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2003
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I would recommend you to deposit like $100(or more, whatever you can afford to lose), and start up at the .25/.5 limit. That is because I suspect the rake at the lowest stakes to be very hard to overcome. Just bet your good hands for value, do not bluff(except for c-betting) and make $$$$.
| quick98ta wrote: |
| Finaly stritforward play is usually what is suggest at lower limits dont get to caught up with trying to check raise all the time when u flop a set and things like this. |
Not c/r'ing those types of hands is an enormous leak which could very well cost you your entire winrate. An example:
$5/$10 Cash game
Everybody folds to the Button, who raises. The SB folds and you flat in the BB with 5 5
(Pot: $22,50)
Flop: K 5 K
You bet, he calls
(Pot: $32.50)
Turn: 2
You bet, he calls
($52.50)
River: 3
You bet, he calls.
Final pot: $72,50. By leading out you won a 7,25 BB pot.
Same scenario:
$5/$10 Cash game
Everybody folds to the Button, who raises. The SB folds and you flat in the BB with 5 5
(Pot: $22,50)
Flop: K 5 K
You check, he bets, you call
(Pot: $32.50)
Turn: 2
You check, he bets, you raise, he calls
(pot:$72.50)
River: 3
You bet, he calls.
(Final pot: $92.50) By flatting the c-bet and c/r'ing the turn you gained an extra 2 BB.
Often, you can safely check-raise and expect to get called by worse a lot. that is because you will be giving you opponent great odds, committing them to call. Yes, they might fold sometimes, but the extra bets you gain by c/r'ing instead of leading out more than makes up for that. |
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quick98ta
Four of a Kind
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 295
Location: Playing a "Rigged" game and beating it.
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Your example is a flopped ful house not a set. Further more i didnt say never i just said dont get carried away if you make it 2 bets and you flop a set it dosent always have to be a check rasie. |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2003
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| quick98ta wrote: |
| Your example is a flopped ful house not a set. |
It doesn't matter if it was a FH or a set. The point I tried to make was that not c/r'ing hands for value is a huge leak.
| quick98ta wrote: |
| Further more i didnt say never i just said dont get carried away if you make it 2 bets and you flop a set it dosent always have to be a check rasie. |
How are you supposed to get in 2 bets without c/r'ing? You would have to count on your opponent to raise your donkbet, but that does not happen very frequently at these stakes, compared to bets and calls. |
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quick98ta
Four of a Kind
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 295
Location: Playing a "Rigged" game and beating it.
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| WhatASurprise wrote: |
It doesn't matter if it was a FH or a set. The point I tried to make was that not c/r'ing hands for value is a huge leak.
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Personaly i think that a full house and set make a huge differance full house your not going to get drawn out on very often your opponents best chance is to have 4 outs so board texture dosent matter as much.
However if u flop a set and the board has a strait or flush draw board texture is very important.
| WhatASurprise wrote: |
| quick98ta wrote: |
| Further more i didnt say never i just said dont get carried away if you make it 2 bets and you flop a set it dosent always have to be a check rasie. |
How are you supposed to get in 2 bets without c/r'ing? You would have to count on your opponent to raise your donkbet, but that does not happen very frequently at these stakes, compared to bets and calls. |
My mistake for not being clear i ment you raise pre flop. |
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BOYNAMEDSUE
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 9111
Location: Mypos
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| If you have to play $.05/.10 than don't put too many bets in with big pairs. You'll need two pair or better to win pots. Most of the table will see most of the flops. I'd limp more with drawing hands to try and make big hands. |
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TheWhitePersian
High Card
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: re: |
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| stenrick wrote: |
| Out of curiosity, which Sklansky book are you mainly referring to when you play? |
I was referring to "Hold 'Em Poker".
And thank you for the replies. I guess you all are right. Just keep plugging away and don't bet on just anything like all the others seem to do. As I get the hang of the micro-limit play, I should develop better judgement about how far to push it. |
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mathman1115
Wizard of Odderation
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 3551
Location: Land of the Fightin' Phillies
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| WhatASurprise wrote: |
Final pot: $72,50. By leading out you won a 7,25 BB pot.
(Final pot: $92.50) By flatting the c-bet and c/r'ing the turn you gained an extra 2 BB. |
The 2nd line only gets you 1 addition bb, not 2. In these situation i like to bet into them on the flop and hope they raise, and then checkraise the turn, so i can get an additional 1.5 bb.
But even so, the button in this situation can have a wide range of hands, so its more likely he missed a flop like this and probably would check the turn.
If the raise came from EP, then that 2nd line is ok, but against a button i like to just bet here and make it look like i'm trying to steal the pot on a pretty dry board. |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2003
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| mathman1115 wrote: |
| WhatASurprise wrote: |
Final pot: $72,50. By leading out you won a 7,25 BB pot.
(Final pot: $92.50) By flatting the c-bet and c/r'ing the turn you gained an extra 2 BB. |
The 2nd line only gets you 1 addition bb, not 2. In these situation i like to bet into them on the flop and hope they raise, and then checkraise the turn, so i can get an additional 1.5 bb.
But even so, the button in this situation can have a wide range of hands, so its more likely he missed a flop like this and probably would check the turn.
If the raise came from EP, then that 2nd line is ok, but against a button i like to just bet here and make it look like i'm trying to steal the pot on a pretty dry board. |
Miscalculated the 2nd line, sorry about that. Forgot to mention their ranges from different positions applies strongly as well, because they can be making free card plays with overcards, draws etc, and check the turn behind. It really depends on opponent's raising tendencies though, so donking into certain board textures readless can lose a lot of value. |
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GorilainaPhnbth
Straight
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Just know where the frequent preflop raises come from. Sometimes there is always one player doing this. If you have 2 then the chances of 4 bets increases exponentially. If anything it might be better to leave those circus tables even though the posts are appealing.
In limit and especially micro whoever calls one will likely call 2 bets. There are sometimes when you can fold after one bet instead of putting another 2 cents in.
With pairs you need to hit on the flop. With suited connectors you need a flush draw, even top pair might do you no good unless you have a good straight draw because chances are someone is fishing a higher straight with 1 card! Secondary hands like KJ etc you need to hit that flop hard.
If you are playing AK or AQ and hit the ace dont bother getting into a betting battle. There will be times that the donk with another ace hit his rag card too.
Just check-call everything until you have the nuts after the river card then check-raise. They wont understand your check-raise at that level and 50% of the time will make it 3 bets then you cap it.
On world poker exchange I got 50 cents on a freeroll and turned it into a few hundered just on the micro tables using that strategy. |
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DforDissent
Royal Flush
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 669
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| WhatASurprise wrote: |
| quick98ta wrote: |
| Your example is a flopped ful house not a set. |
It doesn't matter if it was a FH or a set. The point I tried to make was that not c/r'ing hands for value is a huge leak.
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Specifically, not check-raising THE TURN against opponents who are either LAGgy, aggro when you show weakness, or most likely have TP or overpair (based on preflop and flop betting and their style) ... because check-raising on the FLOP is too obvious when shorthanded or headsup that you have a monster (works at fullring, since nobody folds any kind of draw on the flop!) ... checking the flop and CALLING is crucial to setting up the winrate-boosting checkraise on the TURN.
Of course, if you have a calling station, or a bluffer who rarely fires a second barrel on the turn, then check-calling the flop and betting out the turn is the better line (as often he will check it back since he has air and you called the flop >_< ) |
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AllInDrawinDead
Poker Nerd
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: check/raising your mother
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have the lead preflop and out of position you should c-bet a flopped set, hope to get raised, then c/r the turn. otherwise keep firing. if you opened and got three bet you can check raise the flop or turn. i prefer to do it on the flop so i can get three bet and get four bets on the flop. or get an extra bet from two overs who wouldnt have bet the turn. its all about who had the lead on the previous street. |
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jjc16_1
High Card
Joined: 25 Sep 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: Re: I Am Losing At Fixed Limit Micro Stakes |
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| TheWhitePersian wrote: |
I am confused and frustrated. I read about Sklansky, pot odds, the importance of position and jumped into fixed limit .05/.10 tables with max of six players because a beginner should start at the lowest tables and move up gradually. What the h@ll? They bet anything... Preflop raising from any position with a pair of 2s. Calling to the showdown with 34 offsuit and a flop of KQT. I saw it today. They reraise on the turn with nothing in their hands. I even saw one person bet on the river and at showdown, his best hand was the board. He wasn't even on a flush or straight draw. WHAT THE F^&%?
The bad thing is, I am the one losing!
If I play tight using Skalnsky hands and correct position, I end up folding at least five hands for every one that I play. When I finally bet, everyone folds because they know I must have something or one person calls to the showdown and beats me on the river. All the folding causes the blinds to chip away at my bankroll. I never get enough good hands to do anything with and the few times I win it just replaces SOME of the loses.
How do I win at this level? |
1. If they're giving you that much respect on your pot opening, open up your range until someone stops you. If I'm at a table like that, I will literally start raising 40-50% of my hands. If they fold, so much the better -- folding = 100% EV for you 
2. If they're playing 34o till the river, they're going to lose -- on average. Just be patient and stick to your game.
3. Have you looked at your post flop play to see if anything is wrong? Do you play big pairs too aggresively postflop on bad boards, etc? |
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