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AllInDrawinDead
Poker Nerd
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: check/raising your mother
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| not given the range we've assigned him. even if he is overplaying an overpair your TPGK is no good. other times it's pefectly logical to call one more bet, but not this hand. |
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WhatASurprise
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 2003
Location: You come at the king, you best not miss.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| AllInDrawinDead wrote: |
| not given the range we've assigned him. even if he is overplaying an overpair your TPGK is no good. other times it's pefectly logical to call one more bet, but not this hand. |
Not sure what you mean here. Chef made a flush OTR.
Also, chef, move up. The rake kills at this limit. At .25/.5, I can almost guarantee that you will have a better hourly. |
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mysteriouschef
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 904
Location: hawaii, honolulu
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah WaS, I do play .25/.5 but I recently moved back down cuz I have been going on this downswing for 150 bb.
Also I was discussing with AIDD what our plan would be with TPGK on the river if the river came a K or Q. I still think he is capable of running a bluff/playing bad 7% of the time to call. This is .1/.2 after all. |
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DforDissent
Royal Flush
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 669
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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(I posted in the "duplicate thread" originally -- http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/flhe-rate-my-play-kqs-t86937.html )
| francois8 wrote: |
Disclaimer: I just mess around playing limit for a change of pace... I'm more of an MTT / no limit guy in terms of experience.
But FWIW, I like your line on the flop and the turn. I'm good with either check calling or bet /calling river, probably leaning slightly towards check calling since the card that paired the board is the highest card. JT more likely than set or J6 for example... If turn had paired that bottom card instead, I'd lead out river to get value from KJ type hands. Without reads, folding is not an option here imo.
I'll let more experienced limit players discuss if they'd 3-bet pf, I wouldn't since we're OOP with no reads. On the button, I probably 3-bet pf 5 handed with KQs. |
preflop that open-raise was UTG so it could easily be AJ or even KJ/QJ and is unlikely to be JT. More often it is a pocket pair that is lower than JJ (maybe TT :sigh": ) but I think bet-calling the river is the best line because you will often get a raise from a lower flush, or from trip Jacks that missed his kicker (hoping you have AA or KK or QQ and will of course pay him off). Of course, it's BB who check-raised the flop, but from their position and based on the preflop action it might just be someone pushing a draw with positive equity (i.e. 26% or better in a 4handed pot).
Also, preflop I doubt 3-betting from the SB would be +EV since you'd be making BB fold worse Kings or Queens, and since you've got a caller on the Button in between who is not going anywhere (and the Button might just bet the flop with air if you all check to him, thus by raising you'd be inflating a pot that you might be highly likely to fold since the UTG raiser's check would likely mean AK or a pocket pair which he won't fold to your bet on the flop).
Of course, in the hand the UTG led out the flop (instead of check-raising the Button) after you blinds checked, so he is either representing an overpair to the Jack, or AJ, or pushing his underpair to "see where he is at" (to me, that's most likely ... at least considering the flop).
Once he just CALLS the check-raise by the *BB*, clearly you are ahead of the UTG (since if he had JT or JJ he would most certainly be the capper, not the caller) therefore since UTG is behind you here, and BB is clearly ahead of YOU (unless he has something like 9c8c, which is certainly likely since this is multiway and he might think his flush outs are clean too, even fullring I've seen that kind of aggression with monster draws).
Since you missed the turn you can only check-call but nobody else raised so you learn nothing about BB's strength (and UTG is obviously still not ahead of you since it would be foolish to slow-play if he was on the flop). I think your straight is the best draw you can hope to hit, since you might be facing an Ace-high flush draw, or your flush card fills someone up... so raising here would be too risky with not enough reward, as someone else pointed out if you were raised you would hate it. And of course your pair outs are useless.
On the river you have 3 opponents seeing it with you (what happened to UTG?) so I think it's more likely your donk-bet will appear like a STEAL to the BB (who probably flopped a strong hand with his AJ or QQ..AA -- and thinks if you hit your flush you would CHECK-RAISE since he's likely to fire once more on the river... his raise might be cuz he thinks he is still the best since nobody raised him on the turn and he doesn't believe you would donkbet your rivered flush). The BB would also, of course, iso-raise you if he though you had an overpair or a worse Jack (if he has AJ or KJ) and thus you can bet-call since this is a way ahead/way behind situation. On the other hand, since he was pumping the flop AND turn I suspect he might have filled up with TT or JT but it is also very likely his range includes overpocketpairs and AJ/KJ. Or maybe even a horribly played T6  )
disclaimer: I play mostly headsup and 3handed, so I rarely will check the river when I make my hand, since too often it is scary and the Button who fired 2 barrels will now check behind -- whereas often I will bet out as a bluff and he knows it therefore he might even RAISE me with only top pair or 2pair, so obv. bet-call is the best line for those situations (headsup and 3handed, I mean). Since this is 6max, it also comes down to reads (is BB someone who fires all the way after showing aggression on the flop?)
PS: what happened to UTG? He called the turn but no action on river -- folded river? |
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