Online Poker Forum - bad bubble pushes?

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

The first hand I had quite a big stack and a good hand, in the sb anyway, seeing as the bb cannot call without premium, this was an obvious bubble bully play, but was i too short to make this move, as you can see i lost and was left with around 6BBS

Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 150/300 Blinds (4 handed) - Converter Tool from

saw flop | saw showdown

Hero (SB) (t4725)
BB (t2772)
UTG (t2448)
Button (t3555)

Hero's M: 10.50

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7

, K

2 folds, Hero raises to t4700 (All-In), BB calls t2447 (All-In)

Flop: (t5494) 10

, 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t5494) 10

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t5494) K

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t5494

Results:
Hero had 7

, K

(two pair, Kings and tens).
BB had A

, K

(two pair, Kings and tens).
Outcome: BB won t11188

The second I had 10BBs and shoved 2.4k on a 900 raise, yes he had great odds to call, but he had a safe stack and once again unless he has premium he could probably fold his hand

Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 150/300 Blinds (4 handed) - Converter Tool from

saw flop | saw showdown

Hero (Button) (t2503)
SB (t5044)
BB (t2423)
UTG (t3530)

Hero's M: 5.56

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4

, 4

UTG bets t900, Hero raises to t2478 (All-In), 2 folds, UTG calls t1578

Flop: (t5406) A

, 2

, 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t5406) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t5406) Q

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t5406

Results:
Hero had 4

, 4

(two pair, Aces and fours).
UTG had 10

, A

(three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: UTG won t11012

drkato · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject:

1st - bad
2nd - good

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

okay please explain, i have been taught that when u have a big stack, u should be pushing on players when ur in sb with hands like k7s because they simply cant call unless they have a premium holding.

Am i too short to make this play then? As im left very short if i get called and lose, is this a play to be left only for when u have a very big stack suck as 7k, or is this just a bad push 100%

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

A range of what i hands i should be pushing in the sb and button when i have a big stack in relation to the relative stack in BBs of the small stacks would be great, for example, in sb with 10bb or less i believe you should be shoving (in unopened pot)

all pps
any ace
any king
q4s+
q8o+
jto+
j8s+

so obviously the way i have been pushing when i have a big stack is quite similar but using their relative stack size in BBs as a guideline as to what I should be pushing, but maybe not quite as loose. So if someone could let me know what range of hands i should be pushing in relation to the effective stack when i have the big stack would be great, as i am obviously treating them as very similar situations when it seems they are not

Hope that made sense

drkato · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject:

I'd have to know what the BB was running, to have an idea of his likelyhood of calling percentage-wise. Knowing that, you could run the numbers in an ICM calculator to know for sure if it is a good push or not. Just eyeballing it with respect to ICM, I don't think it is good, but I could be wrong. Just a few points one way or the other is all that it takes to make it profitable or not.

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

hmmm i have a copy of pokerstove but have no idea how to use it, any tutorials anywhere online?

brian3305 · Pair Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 42

I don't think the first one is worth pushing because I don't see the value in risking that many chips to win one BB. A thought I had that I would be interested in hearing other peoples oppinions on, is would it make sense to make a standard raise here? You haven't got a great stack, but you've got some elbow room, however the BB has less than ten BBs, so to call a three BB raise would pretty much commit him. So he would then have the option of either folding or coming over the top which would give you some indication of the kind of hand he might have based on any other reads you might have made. Any thoughts?

-BBAnimalz- · Three of a Kind Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 86

hand1: super easy shove u can push any 2 here and be +ev unless bb calls extreme lightly which is very unlikely with the fact there is a smaller stack to him and most players close down on the bubble anyway.

hand2: fold putting yourself on a flip/dominated hand on the bubble with no fold equity is bad, really you should either find unopened pots to push and even better against the other short stack.

drkato · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject:

Hmm, for some reason I read #2 wrong and thought it was an unopened pot. Seeing that it is not, I would say that one is bad as well.

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

-BBAnimalz- · Three of a Kind Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 86

A case can be made for pushing 44 but in my experience players wont raise/fold when they already opened with a bigger stack behind them on the bubble so they must like their hand, u would have to have a solid read and seen them do this before to push.
If u do decide to push without reads a stop n go would be better imo

LiamHooks · Full House Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Posts: 231

okay thanks for the advice guys all your points have been noted, it appears i am overdoing the resteal without enough equity and also, bullying that little too much. I have lately gone through a period of 10 no cashes in a row with 8 bubbles, yes 8 bubbles, i did have some hurrendous luck but i cnat help but
wonder if some of the bubbles were simlar errors on my part. So i shall try to adapt and let you know how many SNGs this evening go.

if anyone else wants to add their 2 cents feel free

Azonicbh · Pair Joined: 02 Aug 2009 Posts: 48

1st = good

2nd = bad (people already explained why)

For the first one , it depends ofc if you have a calling station in your bb that can call you with a wide range. Unless you have that kind of bb , you should push.

Here are the reasons why:
- You are very unlikely to get called since you are on the bubble
- You have an above average hand
- If you get called , there is a good chance that you might still be live
- If you get called and loose , you still have enough chips to have fold equity on the bubble
- The blinds are high enough for you to put pressure on the bb.

Remember , 1 first is better than 2 3rd places. Always keep that in mind.

dcdoorknob · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:

I think hand 1 is fine against the vast majority of opponents, and hand 2 is pretty bad ICM-wise.

drkato · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject:

I didn't look at the results when reading the HHs, but it is usually best to not even include them.

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