Online Poker Forum - 2/5 live - big draw in weird turn spot

HuJwang

relevant stacks:

EP: covers
MP: $500
hero: $920
CO: $130

- EP is a somewhat loose reg who seems reasonably competent for the stakes.
- MP is a drunk guy who has been playing somewhat LAG, making some moves for smaller amounts, like $50 and $100, but hasn't been going too crazy much deeper than that
- Hero: been playing slightly lag, not long ago i lost a huge pot where i got it in $1300 deep with KT on AQJ when some guy decided to overbet shove with a flush draw+gutshot, he obv hits the flush. i rebought $500 and built it up a little with numerous small pots
- CO is a loose, somewhat aggressive girl who is down like $1500 and is a bit tilted

hero is in HJ with A Diamond

9

and makes it $30 after a couple limpers

i get 5 callers, one behind me with a short stack

flop ($180): Q Diamond

4

2

checked to MP who donks $150 (this is not unusual for him with a hand like TPGK). short stack CO is getting ready to push her chips across so i call and she does too.

EP asks MP how much he has behind. after thinking a bit, he says "i just call"

turn ($580 main, $150 side): 9 Spade

EP asks me how much i have. i count and tell him $740, and he then quickly shoves. MP thinks a bit and calls his $300ish off.

i remember thinking OTF that EP must have a worse flush draw, but his sudden turn shove makes no sense for that since he's not an idiot and realizes that there's only about $150 in the side pot.

so basically i'm facing $740 to win $1770. if all of my outs are clean, i have the odds to call. in the worst case facing a set and another FD i may have as few as 6 outs.

call?

nolan6 · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject:

I dont think all your outs are clean because of the action pre i doubt anyones got AA/KK so surely someone has a set and someone has a worse draw, EP could have TJ diamonds and have turned a oesd and fd but semi bluffing so big to win the side pot suggests he likely has a hand to win the main pot, eg a set.

They cant all be all in with just TP, so i think its a fold, only just though and it depends how competent EP is, would he just call a set then shove the turn? quite hard to say.

adam27x · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject:

what stakes online are most comparable to 2/5 live?

fwiw, I think raising pre is pretty close. From what I know of live games, you'll be OOP a ton here, and you'll get paid off with a big hand in limped pots anyway since the large # of limpers bloats the pot.

This is pretty gross since there's a lot of players involved but if that's standard for this game then things are quite different. With a reg getting in 200bbs despite this action and all of the players involved I'm pretty tempted to fold. The pair looks enticing but it's never good and I think our flop equity is actually higher than our turn equity, assuming all of outs are good on both streets (which is generous), but I just did quick math with the rule of 4 and 2 and could be wrong, and I can't be bothered to stove anything right now.

EP never has QQ+ here, right? I have no idea how good a "reasonably competent" 2/5 live player is so I'm not sure of much. His line is pretty weird, but I guess it's way more standard live. He could probably play a set this way.

I fold but I don't play live nearly enough to know if that's good. I'm pretty sure you called though, so I'm interested in the results and what others have to say.

cliffs: another marginal spot where adam folds and hujwang suggests calling, move along now.

HuJwang · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject:

EP definitely does not have a big pocket pair. it's been a while since i've played full ring online, and i've never played much of it higher than 25NL, so unfortunately i can't really give you a perfect comparison. however i can say that at 2+2 they include 2/5 in the micro stakes forum so i doubt the play is much different from what you find at 50NL. just move the decimal point to the left one spot and pretend it's a 50NL hand.

yes the raise pre is kinda marginal but it had been a bit since the last time i raised, and i prefer to keep up the image as a loose raiser.

drtre1987 · Forum Farmacist Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2933

adam27x · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:25 am Post subject:

HuJwang · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:35 am Post subject:

most players notice when you raise a fair amount. even some bad players do. some bad players are very observant, they just don't know how to make proper use of their observations. but even if it makes no difference to the fish, it's still nice to have a looser image in the competent players' eyes if i can still outplay most of them.

by the way this wasn't an open; i was raising 2 or 3 limpers.

Big Slick x13x · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:50 am Post subject:

I could have swore I posted in this thread.

To answer Adam, I agree that this limit is most like 50nl for the most part with occasional tables going up or down a level. In your spot I think you have to fold. It's so rare that this many people are going bat sh!t crazy which is what you need to have the odds. I think you're up against two pair + and a draw a lot of the time. And that's enough to make this a fold. If it wasn't an all in bet and you had $1k+ behind implied then I believe calling is right. If you had more like 2200+ behind (effective obv) then shoving could be right if your opponent can fold anything but sets.

adam27x · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject:

results?

HuJwang · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject:

i tanked for a while and folded

EP had J Diamond

T

the drunk guy had QJo
the short stack had Q8o

not only did i have the odds to call but i actually had the best hand, at least for the side pot lol
the river, however, was an offsuit 8, giving the JT guy the nuts.

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